Salmond "We can take Scotland in two weeks"

[TestMangler]

Yes, news programmes were interesting. To me it looked like this......

[JustinTime]

No, but it will mean that the Scottish government is elected by the people in that country, and not the 90% of the UK that don't live in Scotland.

Do you not think that voters in every country would like to see their government voted in by their people ? England included.

What you say about the types of people we elect is 100% correct, but it's a totally different argument.

If there was a question on your ballot paper for 'No knob-ends allowed in the house' I think most people would tick it.

So you're arguing for an increasingly regionalism of politics?

Where does that stop: autonomous regional councils, city states, each farm can levy the taxes that it sees fit, each street?

The buck has to stop somewhere, and independence will not give you better government; it will give you a much smaller pool from which to select the best (clearly subjective, but used to underline a point) people to run a country.

Cronyism, and lobbyist influence may rife in Westminster politics, but it's also endemic in the running of Scotland's city councils (c.f. the shambles that is Glasgow). It will be no different in the running of the new republic, and it may be worse without a truly national press to hold MSP's to account.

[Old Greg]

I'd rather have people who've had experience of real jobs, who've worked for a living rather than the usual Westminster bunch, career politicians. Personally they should be kept as far away from government as possible.

If you really believed what you write then I think you'd have to agree that Westminster is never going to deliver that, independence might.

I agree that Westminster won't, but I doubt Edinburgh will either.

I spend a lot of time in the Republic of Ireland and 90 years on, nobody wants to be back in the UK or wishes they hadn't left. But they're not enamoured of their political class either. I see no reason to see why Scotland will be any different.

But Irish politics is definitely not the same as UK politics. It is much more localised, but the local representatives have a strong reputation for corruption. There are many more Independents, which I think is a good thing. People feel a closer connection to their representatives. When Bertie Ahern was Taoiseach, he used to drink in his local on a weekend. When he was Finance Minister, he didn't have a bank account and used to cash his pay cheque down the pub.

So if we see that as one model, it's not the same as the UK, but it doens't seem any better, really.

[mudskipper]

What do people think about 16 year olds being able to vote?

Quite surprised that most would vote 'no' (although this was some months ago)

BBC News - Scottish independence: Study suggests most 16/17 year olds would vote 'no'

[JustinTime]

What do people think about 16 year olds being able to vote?

Quite surprised that most would vote 'no' (although this was some months ago)

So was Salmond.


It's a sham to try to bolster the "Yes" voters. Children's brains have not developed sufficiently in order to allow them to assess risk; numerous studies have shown this to be the case.

[Old Greg]

So was Salmond.


It's a sham to try to bolster the "Yes" voters. Children's brains have not developed sufficiently in order to allow them to assess risk; numerous studies have shown this to be the case.

Then perhaps iScotland could think about exposing Scottish children to this:

The United Kingdom is one of a group of fewer than 20 states which have a minimum voluntary recruitment age of 16 years. As such it is out of step with the prevailing trend towards a global ban on the recruitment of anyone below 18 years of age.

According to British government policy under-18s in the British armed forces are prohibited from participation in armed conflict, but this policy can be overruled if there is a “genuine” military need or if it is otherwise impracticable to withdraw minors before deployment. Its systems for tracking personnel to ensure that under-18s are not deployed has reduced, but not entirely stopped, soldiers from being inadvertently deployed to operation theatres before they turn 18, and the UK has repeatedly exposed children to the risk of participation in hostilities.

Child Soldiers International - United Kingdom

[TestMangler]

So you're arguing for an increasingly regionalism of politics?

Where does that stop: autonomous regional councils, city states, each farm can levy the taxes that it sees fit, each street?

The buck has to stop somewhere, and independence will not give you better government; it will give you a much smaller pool from which to select the best (clearly subjective, but used to underline a point) people to run a country.

Cronyism, and lobbyist influence may rife in Westminster politics, but it's also endemic in the running of Scotland's city councils (c.f. the shambles that is Glasgow). It will be no different in the running of the new republic, and it may be worse without a truly national press to hold MSP's to account.

Scotland is a country mate, not a region. So, don't try to tell me what I'm voting for. I at no point suggested anything that you seem to suggest I did. I'm voting for an independent Scotland.

I know about the corruption and cronyism in larger councils. I lived and paid my local taxes in Glasgow for years and now live in Argyll.

Actually, while we're on that subject, letting people be subjected to what their councils can and can't do is a good (if slow) way of bringing about change in people's attitudes to councils. During the SNP council tax freeze, Glasgow cuts bin collections while maintaining the budgets for the meaningless tulip they do and the provosts Limo fleet. Other councils started with non essential spending cuts. Where I live, there have been no cuts to essential council services that I can see.

Anyway, I think I've about had it with this discussion on here. We don't agree, End of Story.

You carry on with your fantasy and I'll do the same :-)

[Mich the Tester]

Children's brains have not developed sufficiently in order to allow them to assess risk; ...

And adults' brains have?

[JustinTime]

Then perhaps iScotland could think about exposing Scottish children to this: Child Soldiers International - United Kingdom

Yes, it should. 16 year old soldiers in this country are predominantly from the poorly educated under-classes. I have no argument with increasing the age of recruitment to 18, or beyond for that matter.

[JustinTime]

Anyway, I think I've about had it with this discussion on here. We don't agree, End of Story.

Ah, the Malvolio stratagem ; so nice to see it deployed outside of a discussion on PCG.