Young Western European Muslims in ISIS; what is it all about?

[original PM]

Guess what type of school one if not both of those two jihadists from Cardiff went to?

Catholic?

what do i win?

[EternalOptimist]

Catholic?

what do i win?

a pew-lizter prize ?

[OwlHoot]

They're going to Syria and Iraq from all over Europe; it isn't purely a British problem. How have they ended up hating us so much? In general we're not talking about new muslim immigrants or the first generation immigrants who came to Europe to work and build up a good life. We're talking about people who grew up here and went to school here. Now I can think of lots of things in western society that I think are wrong, but that doesn't mean you need to cut people's heads off or wage war against the west. Do they feel somehow rejected by western society? Do they experience some moral void or nihilist lack of culture here that they're trying to replace by turning to an extreme version of the religion of their parents of grandparents?

I suspect that a few of them are just psychopaths looking for an excuse to live out their fantasites, but that can't explain all the cases. It can't simply be Islam otherwise there's be 1.6 billion people around the world with bombs strapped to them and machine guns in their hands; there aren't, so it can't be explained simply by pointing to Islam. I just dunno about this; I am simply trying to understand what has gone on in their minds and in their lives to make them want to go and lose their lives fighting for some completely crazy plan.

It's conceit pure and simple - That's what motivates the vast majority of terrorists and traitors (double agents and the like).

A crusade, or being secretly "on the other side", makes them feel important, especially if they feel they are part of a powerful movement or the winning side.

That's also why terrorists tend to be better educated than average. Their heads are stuffed with a load of half-baked ideas, an arrogant sense of entitlement, and a craving for recognition.

[ELBBUBKUNPS]

It's conceit pure and simple - That's what motivates the vast majority of terrorists and traitors (double agents and the like).

A crusade, or being secretly "on the other side", makes them feel important, especially if they feel they are part of a powerful movement or the winning side.

That's also why terrorists tend to be better educated than average. Their heads are stuffed with a load of half-baked ideas, an arrogant sense of entitlement, and a craving for recognition.

Plus they have small n*bs so are very angry, they have never been able to pull a lady because there so butt ugly, you see the british ones on telly who have gone over there and just think what a d*ck. They are not real men.

[Avalonia]

They'll soon come running back when they see their mates getting vapourised ( as God wills it) so revoke their citizenship and don't let them back in

[Mich the Tester]

They'll soon come running back when they see their mates getting vapourised ( as God wills it) so revoke their citizenship and don't let them back in

That sounds really easy doesn't it?

It isn't though.

[Avalonia]

It should be. F@@k them

[ELBBUBKUNPS]

I must say it does worry me alot them comming back to the UK and getting back. My commute into work, location and particular who I work for makes it a significant target, late last year I was on Jubilee line tube when some dude got up and proceed to shout out 'he was going to kill us all' and we were 'all scum'. On the July 7th bombings I was on the tube behind the one that got hit at Liverpool Street I was on Met line to Aldergate. I even checked to see if my life insurance would payout if I was to go in a terriost attack, that ain't right. Rates in London these days are sh*t anyway, cheap labour pushing rates down, I'm seeing better rates and salaries in the north these days !

[Mich the Tester]

Two articles, both suggest it's not about religious devotion but about fooked up young men desperate for a cause;

What makes some British Muslims become jihadis? – Telegraph Blogs

When critics describe the jihadis as "mediaeval" they have things the wrong way round. Mediaeval Islam was, by the standards of its day, tolerant and enlightened. The extreme form of Wahhabism embraced by the jihadis is, by contrast, a modernist philosophy. Like communism, fascism and every other -ism that promises a new dawn, it makes no concessions, either to past tradition or to human nature. It holds out a vision of something so pure that it can, in practice, never be achieved. This purity is precisely what appeals to a certain type of youngster.

What the Jihadists Who Bought 'Islam For Dummies' on Amazon Tell Us About Radicalisation*|*Mehdi Hasan

...the books of the forensic psychiatrist and former CIA officer Marc Sageman; the political scientist Robert Pape; the international relations scholar Rik Coolsaet; the Islamism expert Olivier Roy; the anthropologist Scott Atran. They have all studied the lives and backgrounds of hundreds of gun-toting, bomb-throwing jihadists and they all agree that Islam isn't to blame for the behaviour of such men (and, yes, they usually are men).

Instead they point to other drivers of radicalisation: moral outrage, disaffection, peer pressure, the search for a new identity, for a sense of belonging and purpose. As Atran pointed out in testimony to the US Senate in March 2010: ". . . what inspires the most lethal terrorists in the world today is not so much the Quran or religious teachings as a thrilling cause and call to action that promises glory and esteem in the eyes of friends, and through friends, eternal respect and remembrance in the wider world". He described wannabe jihadists as "bored, under*employed, overqualified and underwhelmed" young men for whom "jihad is an egalitarian, equal-opportunity employer . . . thrilling, glorious and cool".

Or, as Chris Morris, the writer and director of the 2010 black comedy Four Lions - which satirised the ignorance, incompetence and sheer banality of British Muslim jihadists - once put it: "Terrorism is about ideology, but it's also about berks."

[sirja]

Haven't read the whole thread, so may be repeating what's already been said...

I think there's a number of issues:

1) Many of these boys have grown up in insular communities where white people are looked down. This is so widespread and I think is the basis of many of the problems. I recently read "Shamed" (not quite as depressing as it sounds) about a British born muslim girl who ran away to escape an arranged marriage. The insights into the community in which she was raised were quite shocking. If you were a boy brought up, for example, to see women as there for your convenience, there is perhaps little motive to reject these values - if you do, you might have to clean your own house/cook your own dinner...

2) The whole issue round identity. How often do we see "white British" being referred to? The implication is that white British = British, brown British = not really British, muslim = not really British. Even without point 1, if you're a brown British muslim, who do you identify with? A community that labels you (and frequently abuses you) as not really one of them because of the colour of your skin, or are you supposed to have some sort of inate identity with a country/culture you've never been part of?

3) The general need of young men to have a 'cause'


So you've got a bunch of kids who don't much like their fellow countrymen, who aren't really sure where they belong, and are looking for a purpose.

A bit of persuasive brainwashing and next thing they're on a plane to Syria.

I think you've really come close to hitting the nail on the head. There is indeed a large amount of 'counter British Culture' teaching that occurs in a lot of Muslim families and communities. They are taught that the rest of us are unclean infidels, white and black girls are sluts blah blah. How do you expect such young man to suddenly grow up and be well adjusted members of society. I don't agree that it's all done to lack of integration per se. A lot of orientals are not well integrated but they don't have the extreme anti-western doctrine so the 2nd and 3rd generation Chinese kids tend to be well adjusted. I don't know what the solution is, but I feel the far right is licking it's chops in anticipation that it's moment may soon arrive.