Young Western European Muslims in ISIS; what is it all about?

[EternalOptimist]

Just been thinking and really it is nothing to do with Islam is it.

The 'selling point' to many of these people is
1) you get a gun
2) You do not have to do a 9 to 5 job
3) You can rape as many people as you want
4) when you die you get 4 and 20 virgins

All you have to do is stay loyal to the crew

In reality it is no different from recruiting gang members in America (except for number 4)

aye. and it seems crucial to me, that we dont let any of these f**kers back in, when the smoke has cleared

[tomtomagain]

It's stems from a complete lack of integration.

My missus works in the health profession and visits many Muslim homes near us as part of her work.

She tells me that in many of the homes she's never seen an English book, a lot of the women cannot speak English, they watch Arabic/Pakistani television, listen to Muslim radio.

These people are not listening to Radio 4, not watching the BBC or Sky News and not engaging with wider UK society. They are living in tight-nit, closed communities, sending their kids to predominantly Muslim schools, working ( for the large majority ) in family businesses.

Modern communications allow a person to travel half-way around the world and still keep in contact with their roots, to such an extent that they never need to integrate.

And when you have that situation it becomes easy to radicalise against the perceived injustices.

[original PM]

It's stems from a complete lack of integration.

My missus works in the health profession and visits many Muslim homes near us as part of her work.

She tells me that in many of the homes she's never seen an English book, a lot of the women cannot speak English, they watch Arabic/Pakistani television, listen to Muslim radio.

These people are not listening to Radio 4, not watching the BBC or Sky News and not engaging with wider UK society. They are living in tight-nit, closed communities, sending their kids to predominantly Muslim schools, working ( for the large majority ) in family businesses.

Modern communications allow a person to travel half-way around the world and still keep in contact with their roots, to such an extent that they never need to integrate.

And when you have that situation it becomes easy to radicalise against the perceived injustices.

we have catholic schools and yet we do not have the same problem - i wonder why that is?

[Mich the Tester]

It's stems from a complete lack of integration.

My missus works in the health profession and visits many Muslim homes near us as part of her work.
...
easy to radicalise against the perceived injustices.

Are these the homes of people who immigrated in the 50s, 60s and 70s?

[Mich the Tester]

Just been thinking and really it is nothing to do with Islam is it.

The 'selling point' to many of these people is
1) you get a gun
2) You do not have to do a 9 to 5 job
3) You can rape as many people as you want
4) when you die you get 4 and 20 virgins

All you have to do is stay loyal to the crew

In reality it is no different from recruiting gang members in America (except for number 4)

Craving a sense of 'belonging' to something?

[original PM]

Craving a sense of 'belonging' to something?

yes and no

In the same way that we are all the same in that we go to some place of work and perform services in return for cash - some of us are perm some contractors etc but we 'belong' to a group whose do this - we do not do it out of sense of belonging but because we have bills to pay.

they do not do it out of a sense of belonging but because of what they personally get out of it, money 'girls' etc

if they were told to stop killing etc and start helping the poor and needy they would soon be back home.

[mudskipper]

Haven't read the whole thread, so may be repeating what's already been said...

I think there's a number of issues:

1) Many of these boys have grown up in insular communities where white people are looked down. This is so widespread and I think is the basis of many of the problems. I recently read "Shamed" (not quite as depressing as it sounds) about a British born muslim girl who ran away to escape an arranged marriage. The insights into the community in which she was raised were quite shocking. If you were a boy brought up, for example, to see women as there for your convenience, there is perhaps little motive to reject these values - if you do, you might have to clean your own house/cook your own dinner...

2) The whole issue round identity. How often do we see "white British" being referred to? The implication is that white British = British, brown British = not really British, muslim = not really British. Even without point 1, if you're a brown British muslim, who do you identify with? A community that labels you (and frequently abuses you) as not really one of them because of the colour of your skin, or are you supposed to have some sort of inate identity with a country/culture you've never been part of?

3) The general need of young men to have a 'cause'


So you've got a bunch of kids who don't much like their fellow countrymen, who aren't really sure where they belong, and are looking for a purpose.

A bit of persuasive brainwashing and next thing they're on a plane to Syria.

[Batcher]

if they were told to stop killing etc and start helping the poor and needy they would soon be back home.

Muslim countries don't get involved in aid efforts. The western countries rush to help when there's a tsunami or earthquake for example but muslim countries don't as they see these events as 'the will of God' even if the event happens in another muslim country.

[original PM]

Anyone ever read a book called The Crusaders Arms?

[Pondlife]

we have catholic schools and yet we do not have the same problem - i wonder why that is?

Guess what type of school one if not both of those two jihadists from Cardiff went to?