CJRS while on the bench with ad-hoc work

[northernladuk]

Apparently you can also "work elsewhere while furloughed"

So what is to stop you keeping you limited company open, keep paying your 80% salary which is claimed back from Govt, then "working elsewhere" for your new employer which is your new brolly contract, and double dipping?

Because, unless you are working in the canteen or emptying bins, it would be blatently obvious to everyone and their dog what is going on. You are an IT consultancy. Doing any IT consultancy will be factored as the same work. Doesn't matter what the name of the role is.

Add 'common sense' to JB's morals point.

[NotAllThere]

Adding because it's fraud.

[ladymuck]

Adding because it's fraud.

Is it?

So a receptionist for a bank is furloughed because no-one visits HQ anymore. They get a job as a receptionist for an optician because they either need the money or just want to not go crazy.

Is that illegal? I don't think the rules are massively prescriptive.

I agree morally there's a question to answer but I don't think it's fraud.

[NotAllThere]

Is it?

So a receptionist for a bank is furloughed because no-one visits HQ anymore. They get a job as a receptionist for an optician because they either need the money or just want to not go crazy.

Is that illegal? I don't think the rules are massively prescriptive.

I agree morally there's a question to answer but I don't think it's fraud.

Fair point. Possibly fraud.

[Contreras]

I know the word fraud gets bandied about a lot but as I understand it legally fraud is 'deliberate deception with the intent to gain financially from that deception' and you can be locked up for this.

Morally wrong? Well that is subjective. I have claimed CJRS and asked myself the same question. Had directors been excluded I think many here myself included would have just accepted it as part of being in business on one's own account.

It's worth remembering however that the self employed can receive support and continue working.

[jamesbrown]

I know the word fraud gets bandied about a lot but as I understand it legally fraud is 'deliberate deception with the intent to gain financially from that deception' and you can be locked up for this.

Morally wrong? Well that is subjective. I have claimed CJRS and asked myself the same question. Had directors been excluded I think many here myself included would have just accepted it as part of being in business on one's own account.

It's worth remembering however that the self employed can receive support and continue working.

I think you should read again the post to which that comment referred. It had nothing to do with the ordinary use of the CJRS by contractors, which is perfectly fine.

[cwah]

I was checking HMRC recommendation and here is what it says:

"When your employees are on furlough


During hours which you record your employee as being on furlough, you cannot ask them to do any work for you that:

• makes money for your organisation or any organisation linked or associated with your organisation
• provides services for your organisation or any organisation linked or associated with your organisation

Your employee can:

• take part in training
• volunteer for another employer or organisation
• work for another employer (if contractually allowed)"

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-fo...tention-scheme

So it's allowed to get furlough from the LTD and be paid by the brolly from another contract.

Morally wrong? Probably. Fraud? Definitely not.

[Lance]

I was checking HMRC recommendation and here is what it says:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-fo...tention-scheme

So it's allowed to get furlough from the LTD and be paid by the brolly from another contract.

Morally wrong? Probably. Fraud? Definitely not.

you may well be right.
But it's a bit like not having to pay tax on a loan IMO. And look what happened there.
The government already see contractors as disguised employees.
The public already see contractors as tax dodgers.
To take a rule meant to save peoples jobs, and abuse it for personal enrichment, is not just immoral, it has risks.

I note that you say 'definitely not fraud' But that's your interpretation. And the interpretation of a lay person at that.
You ANAL. Neither am I.

An ex-barrister told me once that anyone who says "something is law", if they not a lawyer they are wrong. Wise advice.
For the few hundred pounds furlough will get you, is it worth it?