Does this count as discussing rate?

[Dominic Connor]

I think the lesson is that some lessons you get for free, but some cost you real money, the trick is to get good value for what they cost.

[Paddy]

You could state your rate to the client; that would not count as a discussion.

[SueEllen]

If its extremely unprofessional then why would you be leaving confidential documents at the printer?

It happens in offices - people print out documents and forget to pick them up.

To work out whose document it is you have to look at the actual document for name or department.

The unprofessional part is where the person who saw the document makes a comment or starts discussing what was in the document.

And what difference does it make if the agency is making a good margin?

If you want a rate increase on renewal and the agency is getting a fat margin then the client isn't likely to pay the agency more for you. After all they are paying £x per month and think that you will be getting most of it.

[IanIan]

You could state your rate to the client; that would not count as a discussion.

That's exactly what I thought. It felt to me as though I was stating a fact to enable HR to have a discussion.

[northernladuk]

It happens in offices - people print out documents and forget to pick them up.

To work out whose document it is you have to look at the actual document for name or department.

The unprofessional part is where the person who saw the document makes a comment or starts discussing what was in the document.

And don't forget agents have been known to mail all their contractors with the rates that everyone is on which has happened in the past few years.

I would imagine there are a host of reasons the agent doesn't want him to discuss rates but you can guarantee one of them will be the contractor not understanding margins and causing a right fuss about it when they find out instead of shrugging it off as they signed it happily and just screw the agent over next renewal.

[Wanderer]

My agent keeps reiterating that I shouldn't discuss my rate with the client.

I wonder why they say that?

So the client asks me if I'll take a nine month contract for a more competitive rate (i.e. lower) and I say I'd prefer three months and the current rate isn't very good anyway. So she asks what I'm actually receiving and I tell her and she's like, we'll have to get you more money from the agency rather than us!

The cat is out of the bag now then! If the client is willing to discuss rates directly then I ALWAYS discuss it with them. The agency will be pissed when they find out but what can they do? Terminate your contract so they get nothing?

I think the agency should be transparent on what their margins are anyway. When I was recruiting contractors I always told them what the rate on offer was so they agency wouldn't try to screw them. As a contractor, I've also had clients tell agencies to get me an increase out of their margin too so this isn't uncommon especially for longer term contracts.

Did you find out what percentage the agency is taking? On a long term contract like that, 5-10% is plenty.

[Project Monkey]

WHS. As soon as I am in the good books of the client and he is happy with me, I pop the question; "So how much am I costing you?", and out comes the answer Always good to know what the agency margin is. That way you can be open with the client, and tell them what the agency cut is. In the last 3 gigs I have always known the agency cut. It also opens doors to negotiate with the client, and ask them to tell the agency to cut down their margin, or bump up the rate (happened with my current gig). All this "don't discuss rate with the client" is to keep us from knowing the agency margin. On the flip side, if you wanted to leave a gig early, you should return the favour and tell the client first before the agency (the same person who told you the true daily rate). Otherwise it would mean double standards, and I for one, would think that as unfair.

Me too, always find out one way or another. One of the advantages in PMing is you get to see the contractor rate cards.

[northernladuk]

Me too, always find out one way or another. One of the advantages in PMing is you get to see the contractor rate cards.

Which has no relation to what the contractor is being paid of course.....

[Dominic Connor]

Just so you know

Why would you tell the agent that you knew what they were charging the client?

Now you can have some real fun with them. When you are ready to renew just tell the client that you are going to ask the agent for a bump and see what the client says. Most likely it will be, he's not getting any more from us.

So now you have an agent sandwich. Knowledge is power. So you can just treat the agent the way he treats you, with contempt and abuse. Knowing full well that he will give you your money.

Oh happy days

Just so you know, the way it works at some agencies is that the particular agent who got you the contract may get nothing if you renew, so he may not care.

At others he will get a reduced rake off, the payment schemes for agents are often stupidly complex and give perverse incentives.

[IanIan]

Did you find out what percentage the agency is taking?

No I didn't. I'm not really that bothered.

However I've got my rate up to what they originally offered me before the talk down plus a six month extension so I'm fairly chuffed now.