From Quasi-contract to Full Contract

**malvolio** · 11 June 2013, 13:23

Originally posted by Gym beast View Post

Hi all,

Currently in a "perm" role but with an onsite provider who has made no bones about us being laid off when their contract is up. However, THAT contract was recently renewed another 3 months, and needs SC (which I've got since working here). Headcount has recently been cut back to the bone, so the team's gone from about 10 guys to a hardcore of 4, one of whom just resigned his (actual) contract.

As I'm SC, what do you reckon the chances are of going contract with rates to match? Best way to do it I guess is to chat about resignation, got the war chest up to a good year and a half plus change if hits the fan.

Ta,

GB

If you want to give up job security and all the protections of being a perm, have to pay all your own bills and be caught by IR35 then go ahead. But be very sure the rate on offer covers your increased overheads, given you're paying full PAYE and NICS (employee and employer) on 95% of your gross and don't get paid when there's no work to be done, like on Bank Holidays...

**northernladuk** · 11 June 2013, 13:24

How on earth are we supposed to know. We don't have a clue about your skill set, time spent, experience etc. SC alone does not get you a gig.

Jesus.. Gonna have to do a bit more thinking than this if you really want to go contracting. You will have legal responsibilities when you do.

Camp on Jobserve, SCclearedjobs etc and see how many of them are on there you can jump into and apply your skillset... I am talking an exact match, not 'could do' or 'could pickup'.

If you cannot demostrate a couple of years doing that exact role you won't get a look in.

From your own research you should have an idea of your market.

**Gym beast** · 11 June 2013, 13:29

Sorry fellas, I should have said that I want to go from Perm to contract INSIDE the same role. Not asking about my engageability on the wide open market.

Yeah yeah..."But how do WE know, you're in there we're not?!?"

I'm just asking what the best way to open and continue the negotiations given industry standards.

**TheFaQQer** · 11 June 2013, 13:31

Originally posted by Gym beast View Post

Sorry fellas, I should have said that I want to go from Perm to contract INSIDE the same role. Not asking about my engageability on the wide open market.

Yeah yeah..."But how do WE know, you're in there we're not?!?"

I'm just asking what the best way to open and continue the negotiations given industry standards.

Read Mal's post then. You'll be IR35 caught, so make sure you factor that into your rate negotiations, assuming they are even interested in paying you as a contractor to do the same role.

**northernladuk** · 11 June 2013, 16:46

You mean go contracting with your existing employer or to go contracting with the client?

I worked with a large IT outsourcer as a perm and they had some very strict handcuffs in the contract about going direct to clients and each client contract had a no poaching clause so was extremely difficult to go direct with client.

If you are talking about resigning from your current post to come straight back as a contractor the you will be a Friday to Monday contractor which is exactly what IR35 exists for. Even if you did get a good rate I can't think for one minute it will make up for the lack of security you now have. If that team of 4 needs to go down to 3 you will be the first one in line. Kick you out zero notice, no redundancy nothing. You would be playing in to their hands. Just to note you would be a disguised permie with a different remuneration method, NOT a contractor.

If you are going to go contracting go do it properly.

**Gym beast** · 11 June 2013, 18:49

Originally posted by northernladuk View Post

You mean go contracting with your existing employer or to go contracting with the client?

I worked with a large IT outsourcer as a perm and they had some very strict handcuffs in the contract about going direct to clients and each client contract had a no poaching clause so was extremely difficult to go direct with client.

If you are talking about resigning from your current post to come straight back as a contractor the you will be a Friday to Monday contractor which is exactly what IR35 exists for. Even if you did get a good rate I can't think for one minute it will make up for the lack of security you now have. If that team of 4 needs to go down to 3 you will be the first one in line. Kick you out zero notice, no redundancy nothing. You would be playing in to their hands. Just to note you would be a disguised permie with a different remuneration method, NOT a contractor.

If you are going to go contracting go do it properly.

Yes, I'm talking about turning up at the same end client's site (X), for my existing employer (Y), but instead as a contractor to Y.

Just to clarify, the contract between X and Y has been extended until September, and I have it on good authority that the contract stipulates that they have 4 of us in here (in fact, one of us just left, as above).

Perm 1 - DB (me)
Perm 2 - NW/Wintel
Perm 3 - Wintel/DB
Contractor 1 - NW

Now, Contractor 1 has packed it in, so we are left with a busy old environment coming up. Comprende about the lack of notice BUT I'm only on a month anyway, and not due any redundancy, plus I'm not fussed if they do P45 me as I have other plans post-IT.

I just want to spend my last few months in it better compensated than before. What I'm asking is, what do I need to know to open and pursue negotiations.

Cheers,

GB.

**malvolio** · 11 June 2013, 19:01

Originally posted by Gym beast View Post

I just want to spend my last few months in it better compensated than before. What I'm asking is, what do I need to know to open and pursue negotiations.

Cheers,

GB.

More than you can imagine...

Pitch for a rate equivalent to your gross salary/1000 per hour - £40k salary means £40 an hour or £320 a day. Sounds a fortune, but it will just about keep you on the same net. You probably won't get it as a standard DBA anyway - your employer is more likely to want to offer no more than the equivalent of your gross plus 13.8% for NICs and 10% for admin if you're lucky - but if you don't ask...

If you go direct, you'll be waiting two months before you get paid and you'll have to sort out your own contracts, so go umbrella. You're IR35 caught anyway so don't even think about a Ltd Co for a few months' work. You won't be able to claim expenses

Then get reading. There's a decent guide over there-->, there's the "all you ever need to know" Guide to Freelancing at www.pcg.org.uk and have a read of some of the bigger accountancy websites like SJD and Nixon Williams as well. Then you will have an idea of what you're getting into.

Then you can ask intelligent questions. "Tell me everything I don't know" is not an intelligent question.

HTH

**northernladuk** · 11 June 2013, 19:46

Aren't we missing a point here. The key party in the arrangement is his employer... Has anyone even bothered to ask them if they may entertain this option. Bearing in mind one contractor has gone they are not exactly going to be jumping at the chance to make a permie a contractor.

I wouldn't be surprised if they pull their own handcuff as an excuse not to do this.

There is then the PSL. If he isn't on it he won't be able to go direct. He would have to go through an agent so taking a free cut of his mullah....

If the company gives in and lets him they have opened to door to everyone else bitching and moaning and wanting the same..

Also, even if the contract with your client ends you are still going to get paid aren't you? You are in employment so will have to bench it or they find you more work?

I hate this I want more money for no reason so I will be a contractor and do the same job situation. If you want good money, leave, take the risks and become a contractor. Typical permie attitude this.

**SueEllen** · 11 June 2013, 19:52

To be fair we should just encourage the poster to go for it.

A few months unemployed will teach him a hard lesson.

From Quasi-contract to Full Contract