Contacts and Recruiting Agents

[singen smythe]

Hi, I'm looking to get into contracting and have been doing my 'homework' but there is one question that I have n't been able to find the answer for.

With your own ltd company, when contracts are being arranged is the contract between the ltd company and the recruiting agency or the client? I originally thought it would be with the client, but some of the posts I have read imply it would be with with the agent and the agent having a seperate contract with the client. The latter arrangement does n't seem to make sense to me as it would imply that I'm working for the agent and not the client, is this the case?

Thanks in advance.

[cojak]

Yes it is.

[singen smythe]

Thanks,

So in that case how would I ensure that the terms of my contract with the agent are actually reflected between the agent and the client?

Additionally, in this arrangement how does invoicing work?

[Wanderer]

It does sound like an odd situation, but that is indeed how it works. You will typically have a contract with the agency and they will have a contract with the client. You will work for the client, complete a timesheet which is authorised by the client and then bill the agency. It's not uncommon for a contractor to never actually meet the agent face to face.

So in that case how would I ensure that the terms of my contract with the agent are actually reflected between the agent and the client?

You don't - that's between the agent and the client to sort out. If the agent doesn't get the terms to match then that's their problem. Normally the agent will have it pretty well nailed down though and cream off a nice percentage for themselves but occasionally they will bugger it up and leave themselves in the lurch.

Sometimes the client will discuss your rate with you, other times you have to negotiate it with the agent and the client stays out of it.

[singen smythe]

It does sound like an odd situation, but that is indeed how it works. You will typically have a contract with the agency and they will have a contract with the client. You will work for the client, complete a timesheet which is authorised by the client and then bill the agency. It's not uncommon for a contractor to never actually meet the agent face to face..

Thanks, things are much clearer now.

Once all the paperwork is sorted and you start, how reliable are the agents in paying after you bill them? From everthing I have read so far I'm a bit wary of agents before I've even started and the last situation I want to be in is where I'm not paid by the agent, yet have to take it up with the client even though they may have paid on time.

You don't - that's between the agent and the client to sort out. If the agent doesn't get the terms to match then that's their problem. Normally the agent will have it pretty well nailed down though and cream off a nice percentage for themselves but occasionally they will bugger it up and leave themselves in the lurch.

Sometimes the client will discuss your rate with you, other times you have to negotiate it with the agent and the client stays out of it.

When you negotiate with the agent, would the client know what I am being paid? What kind of percentage does a typical agent take?

Many thanks again.

[radish2008]

A week in my life

Thanks, things are much clearer now.

Once all the paperwork is sorted and you start, how reliable are the agents in paying after you bill them? From everthing I have read so far I'm a bit wary of agents before I've even started and the last situation I want to be in is where I'm not paid by the agent, yet have to take it up with the client even though they may have paid on time.



When you negotiate with the agent, would the client know what I am being paid? What kind of percentage does a typical agent take?

Many thanks again.

99% of all agents are thieves. Check out what Bill Hicks thought of marketing guys and you are on the right track. They work for themselves, and by that I mean for THEIR advantage and nobody else. A friend of mine once told me that 'Agents find people for jobs, not jobs for people'. This week I have had 4 interviews.

Interview 1 was a telephone tech interview that wasn't confirmed on the day. The agent had gone on holiday, nobody in her office knew or could find out if the interview was going to happen but at 2 pm the phone rang. A full on tech interview with 3 guys in a meeting room that sounded like it was the size of an aircraft hanger. I fluffed a few questions, answered other questions well but didn't do well overall. Fail. Not the agents fault that I failed a tech interview but there was zero involvement or contact.

2nd interview was actually a second interview for a mid range contract, the first telephone interview had gone really well an the face to face went well. They were supposed to call before lunch time Thursday but I still haven't heard. Phone mid Friday to be told that the guy was out of the office and nobody could help.

Third interview was the lowest paid but turned out to be the most interesting work (C#, middle tier to back end - right up my street). The agent had phoned and given me some prep. Advised me to make sure the competency based answers were all sorted as this would be the base of the interview. I should aim to exceed their expectations in every area. No competency based questions at all. No tech interview. just me and the architect talking about how I could help solve their problems. They made an offer a few hours later. This is where I made my first mistake of the week by trying to get the agent to reduce his commission to give me more money. He was new to this client and is taking 50 out of 300, leaving me 250. The same rate I was on 4 years ago but I don't have a job. With zero income anything begins to sound like a good idea. The friend of mine that used to be an agent advised me (well I think) to phone the guy back, eat a bit of sh*t pie and take the job. Reminds me I don't have a job again. Even if there is more cash the agent will now take it. There is a possibility of extensions so it might see me through the lean spell if it continues.

Friday brings the last interview, the agent phones and gives me some prep, tells me that competency based questioning will be the format for the first 45 mins. Then that will be followed by a written test which is easy. I ace the competency bit, the written test turns out to be quite hard and I make an ar$e of it.
I haven't heard from the agent, although she said she would call at 5 as a decision would be made at the time. Not holding my breath.

Friday afternoon brings a call from an old client asking me to go back and upgrade a set of components I wrote 4 years ago. They are still running but need a spruce up. How much will it cost him ? Foolishly in conversation I let slip what the current offer is, he's email over the weekend.

So - the longest post I have written on here for some time. I've been on the bench for two and a half months and have struggled, both emotionally and financially - the warchest is still there but has taken a slight hit (I had about 6 months), my confidence was knocked and each job seemed harder to get than the last one. Picked myself up and dusted myself down a few times and seriously considered jacking it in and going perm. But it worked out - I'll take either of the offers and regroup, hopefully sit out this slump and carry on.

But to get back to your point, 99% of all agents are simply businessmen/women who see you a revenue stream to be milked. Times are tough for everyone. Don't trust them at all and don't get involved with them.

[singen smythe]

I get your point and I certainly do not expect anything to be easy. I would obviously prefer not to have to use agents but at the moment for me at least it looks like they are going to be a necassary evil. How much evil is what I'm trying to figure out before hand.

[SueEllen]

I get your point and I certainly do not expect anything to be easy. I would obviously prefer not to have to use agents but at the moment for me at least it looks like they are going to be a necassary evil. How much evil is what I'm trying to figure out before hand.

2.5 months is not long on the bench.

I know people who haven out 12-15 months mainly for personal reasons. Even then they had quite a bit of free time around what they had to sort out.

In regards to payment I've found agents better at paying on time than direct clients.

It's a case of negotiating with the agent to give you as small a window between you invoicing and them paying you as possible. It also helps if you have a client who insists that the agent has to pay you within x days of you invoicing. Some clients will hint these things to you at interview so you need to alert to more than the technical aspect of the project.

Direct clients can have 30-60 day payment periods which all suppliers are on, and some companies are bloody awful at paying within their agreed payment period. (Oddly I've found smaller direct clients better a paying on time then again it may be due to how I've found them.)

[Wanderer]

the last situation I want to be in is where I'm not paid by the agent, yet have to take it up with the client even though they may have paid on time.

Don't sign that opt out and then the agent has to pay you even if the client doesn't pay them.

When you negotiate with the agent, would the client know what I am being paid?

Depends on the client. Some are straight forward with you and they have a fixed margin contract with the agency so they will tell you that the rate the agent will pay you is £X per day. That doesn't stop the agent trying it on by saying that the rate has dropped by 10% (which they put in their pocket) then telling the client you are unavailable if you refuse to accept this. If the client ever tells you that you are getting £X amount and the agency tells you something different then tell them you will call the client. You will find that they back track very quickly in this situation.....

What kind of percentage does a typical agent take?

I've had them take anything from 4% to 40% of the contract value.

[BolshieBastard]

Don't sign that opt out and then the agent has to pay you even if the client doesn't pay them.

Not an option with Rullion. Rullion (especially the Manchester office) will not put you forward for roles if you insist on opting in.

What's more, they (Rullion's Manchester office) wont contact you again anytime soon for other roles that you may feel well suited for.