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Public Sector IR35 New Requirement.

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    Public Sector IR35 New Requirement.

    Hi all,

    Apologies that my first post on here is a long one seeking advice but hopefully the answers that are given may not only help myself but will help other people who are in the same predicament.

    I operate as an IT contractor developing software and my current contract is with a organisation in the public sector. As some of you will be aware public sector bodies are now requiring anyone considered 'off payroll' who operate through a limited company outside of IR35 to provide evidence that the contract is actually outside of IR35.

    I have completed 2 months of a 6 month contract but the other day I received a letter from them stating that they believe my contract falls within IR35 and I have to provide evidence, either that I am outside IR35 or provide a projected amount of tax/NI I would pay if within IR35. I am contracted to them direct, there is no agency in between my limited company and the client.

    Concerned by the letter I sent my contract to my accountant who has deemed it inside IR35. There are three clauses which show that the client has 'control' over my actions. The contract was created by the client (as I was direct) and I agreed to sign it, if I had contracted through a recruitment agency the contract would have been produced by the agency and would be airtight regarding IR35.

    I find IR35 very confusing, on one hand I think I'm outside of it, I have different clients, provide my own equipment, provide my own training, have indemnity/liability insurance and have a business bank account.

    On the other hand, I don't have any premises because I don't need premises and usually I need to be on site all the time due to the nature of my work. Some clients also require me to use their equipment due to network security reasons. These things don't look good for IR35.

    It seems like IR35 is trying to be an all encompassing deterrent to tax avoidance but it is affecting small genuine businesses.

    I know that IR35 status is quite hard to determine due to it's complexity and ambiguity. It seems more opinion based rather than legal criteria but I'd like to believe that I am not a 'disguised employee'. I am certainly not using a limited company to avoid tax/NI.

    The purpose of this post is for advice on how I, and anyone else in the same situation, should proceed.

    I see a few options:

    1: Terminate my contract and stop all work for the client.

    Although this will negate the need to provide evidence, my fear with this option is that the client will report me to HMRC anyway (for not being able to provide evidence) which may prompt an investigation. Something that I think I would come out from favourably but I simply don't want to to go through an investigation, who would?


    2: Terminate the current contract, amend it to be IR35 compliant and sign it again (client willing).

    Probably the most desirable option.


    3: Terminate the contract, fulfil the remaining 4 months of the contract under an umbrella company.

    I have considered contracting through an umbrella for sometime now (even before this IR35 issue). I don't actually enjoy the admin that goes with running a company and I am not too concerned with the drop in money that will arise from operating through an umbrella.

    Is an umbrella a good option for IT contractors these days? With the recent BBC investigations into high paid consultants, the public sector is increasingly addressing the IR35 problem, perhaps it is only a matter of time before private companies will also be required to make sure they hire contractors that are on the correct side of IR35.

    There will be a few of you on here in the same situation, how are you handling it? Have some of you simply left the contract early?

    Many thanks for any help/advice that is offered.

    #2
    Hi Defstun,

    Reading through your post I'm quite alarmed at the assumptions that you've made regarding IR35. Have you not encountered IR35 before in your contracting busness and have you not heard about the general purge against IR35 in the public sector?

    You must always get your contract reviewed by specialists - I wouldn't trust accountants to do this as in my experience they don't have the specialist knowledge and by default will tell you that the contract is inside IR35 simply because it's safer and easier for them than to tell you it's outside.

    And it's absolutely not true that simply because an agency has given you a contract it's outside IR35.

    And it's more than the contract being inside or outside - if you are a business on your own account the contract will reflect your working practices, just changing the contract on it's own will mean nothing if your working practices do not show that you consider yourself a business.

    Do more research, find out what IR35 really is. Take a look at the guides on the right and read the thread here: http://forums.contractoruk.com/busin...ntracting.html

    It sounds as if this has come as an almighty shock to you, knowing more will help you come to a better decision in your circumstances.

    We will be able to tell you what WE would/will do in this situation but we really won't be able to advise you what you should do - ultimately that decision will be yours.

    For my part I will not work for the public sector in the future (I've worked there in the past) as they are not interested in rewriting contracts to ensure contractors are inside IR35 - they want you to pay your whack. So ultimately it's a case of do you pay up (and possibly put your previous contracts at risk of being inside if they meet the same criteria as this one), move to an umbrella (thus incurring more fees and having another company in control of your money) or terminate the contract.

    I would terminate but others on here may not.

    Read up and decide.
    "I can put any old tat in my sig, put quotes around it and attribute to someone of whom I've heard, to make it sound true."
    - Voltaire/Benjamin Franklin/Anne Frank...

    Comment


      #3
      I can see that you are already considering using an umbrella, again I wouldn't but I don't consider the admin particularly onerous since I started using FreeAgent. What makes the admin a pain for you? Get that side sorted and you may change your mind.

      But if you do want to use an umbrella, take a look at the Umbrella section of this forum - there are many umbrella companies offering helpful advice (and regular posters with recommendations - 1st time posters don't count ).

      You may find a company you want to work with over there.

      Good Luck anyway
      "I can put any old tat in my sig, put quotes around it and attribute to someone of whom I've heard, to make it sound true."
      - Voltaire/Benjamin Franklin/Anne Frank...

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Defstun View Post
        2: Terminate the current contract, amend it to be IR35 compliant and sign it again (client willing).

        Probably the most desirable option.
        And least plausible. You really need to get a basic grasp of IR35 as Cojak mentioned to understand why but when you are reading through the material keep an eye out for working conditions. It isn't just the contract that is part of IR35, it is how you are treated. Doesn't matter what is in the contract if the client treats you inside.
        'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

        Comment


          #5
          Ouch, that's a difficult situation. If the client turns on you with regards to IR35 then you have a serious problem on your hands. My gut reaction is that I'd walk away rather than take a 20% cut in net pay.

          Originally posted by Defstun View Post
          I operate as an IT contractor developing software
          The one ray of hope. Does your contract have the right of substitution? If so, get a chunk of the work and get someone to write it for you. Sending a substitute is a slam dunk for IR35. If you don't have RoS then it will be difficult.

          Originally posted by Defstun View Post
          I see a few options:
          The nuclear option is that you tell the client that trading as IR35 caught would result in a net pay cut and give them a revised daily rate. This will almost certainly be unpalatable for the client so I'd be looking for a new contract.

          Pretty sad state of affairs especially working on what you thought was a direct B2B contract then they pull this stunt. In my view, they should have been up front about the requirement to work within the IR35 rules rather than dumping you in it.

          All things considered, your position is probably untenable. Sorry.
          Free advice and opinions - refunds are available if you are not 100% satisfied.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Wanderer View Post
            Pretty sad state of affairs especially working on what you thought was a direct B2B contract then they pull this stunt. In my view, they should have been up front about the requirement to work within the IR35 rules rather than dumping you in it.

            All things considered, your position is probably untenable. Sorry.
            The sad state of affairs is the number of contractors that don't take IR35 seriously and don't understand it or show any diligence in proving it i.e. contract reviews...
            'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

            Comment


              #7
              Thinking about it, the client did ask the OP to provide evidence - if it was asked of me in my current contract I could do that.

              Originally posted by Defstun View Post

              I find IR35 very confusing, on one hand I think I'm outside of it, I have different clients, provide my own equipment, provide my own training, have indemnity/liability insurance and have a business bank account.
              Defstun, just provide the evidence for which they are asking (via your own company email address, obv!). That's probably the first thing I would do.
              "I can put any old tat in my sig, put quotes around it and attribute to someone of whom I've heard, to make it sound true."
              - Voltaire/Benjamin Franklin/Anne Frank...

              Comment


                #8
                Thanks for all the responses.

                I have been contracting for two years. Not had any problems with any other contracts, they all seemed pretty compliant r.e. ir35. However, I have never had one reviewed before. Perhaps that should be part of my pre-contract process that the contract is reviewed before signing.

                I've not known any other contractors that did this though. Mind you, they are probably all as naive as me!

                I am very tempted to terminate. Although I wonder if they have to report back to HMRC that I didn't/couldn't provide evidence. Just curious, why would some of you terminate? Just don't want the hassle?

                "Defstun, just provide the evidence for which they are asking (via your own company email address, obv!). That's probably the first thing I would do. "

                Yeah, gonna do that today. It might be enough to satisfy the requirement.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Agree with the above, doesn´t look promising. However no harm in trying. They´ve basically stated they need proof. Just explain the situation providing some proof e.g statements from your PM´s demonstrating you´re not under his control, and that you work at home independently etc. It is helpful to have your own premises. This will also help with the business tests. Might be worh paying a few hundred quid a month, especially with clamp down.
                  I'm alright Jack

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by BlasterBates View Post
                    It is helpful to have your own premises. This will also help with the business tests. Might be worh paying a few hundred quid a month, especially with clamp down.
                    Only if they are genuienly needed and used. Just sharing an office you never use to get points will not work.
                    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

                    Comment

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