"We must opt you out of the Conduct of Employment Agencies Regs 2003...

[Gentile]

...because otherwise you'd be an employee of the client, and they'd need to pay you sick pay."

Why do agencies still try this bullshit on with experienced contractors?

I sent the agent a link to the full text of the Act, and invited her to find the word "sick" anywhere in it. I also highlighted the phrase "the scope of the Regulations will be extended to cover work-seekers who contract their services through their own limited company" within the text of the act.

Sigh. They're talking to their legal dept now. My guess is our next conversation will include the phrase "Do you want to contact the client to explain why I won't be starting, or shall I? The Business Employment Agency Inspectorate will be in touch to determine why you're imparting advice that isn't legally accurate, and to determine why you are preventing me from working owing to my free choice not to opt out.", followed by them trying to qualify for the Olympic Back-Pedalling Team.

This is the part of the Contracting game I hate.

[northernladuk]

Why do agencies still try this bullshit on with experienced contractors?

For every one contractor that spots this and can see through it there appears to be 20 disguised permie contractors that don't. It is making it harder and harder for experienced ones as agents don't understand that we know and don't know how to deal with us anymore. We become the 'problem contractor' who doesn't just say yes and sign.

[Gentile]

For every one contractor that spots this and can see through it there appears to be 20 disguised permie contractors that don't. It is making it harder and harder for experienced ones as agents don't understand that we know and don't know how to deal with us anymore. We become the 'problem contractor' who doesn't just say yes and sign.

Apparently every single contractor they've ever dealt with has opted out. You lot must all be liars then, and I myself must be a figment of my own imagination.

The agency is g2, btw. I'd love to hear from any of you that have actually not opted out with them.

[expat]

Apparently every single contractor they've ever dealt with has opted out. You lot must all be liars then, and I myself must be a figment of my own imagination.

The agency is g2, btw. I'd love to hear from any of you that have actually not opted out with them.

Apparently every single contractor they've ever dealt with has opted out yes, that has always been my experience too: they have never heard of a contractor not opting out.

Do the slimy toerags ever tell the truth, or do they not understand the concept?

[Gentile]

Timesheets. Apparently the real problem is now those damnable timesheets. If they don't get filled in, the agency doesn't get paid, you see? They've never had a contractor not opt out in all their time as an agent. Please opt out.

My answer: "Yes, that's right. I still get paid, even if the Client doesn't sign a timesheet. I can assure you that I will fill in my timesheets in a timely fashion, as I've agreed to in my contract. If, however, you're still concerned that the Client may delay in signing off on them, I'd advise you to include a clause in the Upper Contract you have with them that clearly states you will still be entitled to invoice in the case of a timesheet not being signed for work that is nonetheless agreed to have been carried out as per the agency regs blah blah. In a contract where there is a stipulation that I must invoice and provide a timesheet every 7 days, hopefully you'll see that there's not much if any risk inherent in this approach, and that it'll be very easy to spot any problems with the Client withholding timesheet approval at an early stage and to address that appropriately."

I also mentioned that I could see from their LinkedIn profile that they've only been in the job six months. I've been a contractor for nearly thirteen years. So, whilst I'm not surprised they've not had anyone decline to opt out since there are a lot of new contractors out there that allow themselves to be bullied into signing their statutory rights away, I'm not in that category. And I've no doubt they'll be seeing a lot more people like me over the next twelve years if they stick around.

[chef]

the thread title, don't you mean "we can't allow you not to opt out" ? i.e you can't Opt In

[Gentile]

the thread title, don't you mean "we can't allow you not to opt out" ? i.e you can't Opt In

Yes, you're right. I think the most appropriate title would be as you say. I need to watch my double-negatives. It's not opting out we are discussing here. Of course, there's no such thing as "opting in". And they'd be delighted for me to opt out.

[TestMangler]

Timesheets. Apparently the real problem is now those damnable timesheets. If they don't get filled in, the agency doesn't get paid, you see? They've never had a contractor not opt out in all their time as an agent. Please opt out.

My answer: "Yes, that's right. I still get paid, even if the Client doesn't sign a timesheet. I can assure you that I will fill in my timesheets in a timely fashion, as I've agreed to in my contract. If, however, you're still concerned that the Client may delay in signing off on them, I'd advise you to include a clause in the Upper Contract you have with them that clearly states you will still be entitled to invoice in the case of a timesheet not being signed for work that is nonetheless agreed to have been carried out as per the agency regs blah blah. In a contract where there is a stipulation that I must invoice and provide a timesheet every 7 days, hopefully you'll see that there's not much if any risk inherent in this approach, and that it'll be very easy to spot any problems with the Client withholding timesheet approval at an early stage and to address that appropriately."

I also mentioned that I could see from their LinkedIn profile that they've only been in the job six months. I've been a contractor for nearly thirteen years. So, whilst I'm not surprised they've not had anyone decline to opt out since there are a lot of new contractors out there that allow themselves to be bullied into signing their statutory rights away, I'm not in that category. And I've no doubt they'll be seeing a lot more people like me over the next twelve years if they stick around.

So, in a conversation where you accuse them of lying to you, you decide to do the same back to them

[SueEllen]

the thread title, don't you mean "we can't allow you not to opt out" ? i.e you can't Opt In

It sounded like agent speak to me.

[Gentile]

So, in a conversation where you accuse them of lying to you, you decide to do the same back to them

My first contract gig was 18th Feb 2000. I've been contracting on and off since then, with some strategic permie posts in between, for almost thirteen years. What is your point caller?