MOO - Anyone ever handed in notice then not turned up again?

[psychocandy]

Fellow contractor reckoned he did this once. i.e. Handed in notice half way through a contract, then just didn't turn up again for the month or however long it was.

Client and agent went nuts apparently. But contractor quoted MOO and that even though the contract would run for the next month, he was exercising the right to refuse work. Agent had no idea what he was talking about!

Not cool obviously, and I cant imagine you'd be too popular. (and please don't turn this thread into an argument about the rights and wrongs of notice periods etc).

Anyone else ever done this?

Thinking about it - clients seem happy to give contractors notice and even invoke the old no work thing with MOO, so I guess it works other way as well?

(BTW - no contractor in question is not me!)

[cojak]

I did it when my project got canned (announced but actually just petered out).

I finished my last deliverable for it on the Friday (just after the PM informed me that I'd been transferred to another project). I went in Monday morning and explained my position to said PM (who also was baffled), and handed my laptop and pass to security as I left at lunchtime, never to return.

My last deliverable was the handover doc, but they didn't realise until that morning...

(I signed a 6 month extension a month before as I genuinely thought the project would go on, it had no notice period.).

[jmo21]

MOO is about more work, past the current contract, and you choosing not to accept, or the client choosing not to offer more (ie. no extension).

Not just saying "I'm leaving now".

I'll be honest and say I've never entirely understood the notice period argument where, they give you say 2 weeks notice, but don't have to pay it as there is no work and MOO is in effect.

[cojak]

I disagree. For me it was about working to the Schedule in the contract. I was contracted to work on Project X. If Project X gets canned I do not have to work on Project Y.

In fact they should be grateful that I'm saving their budget.

[tractor]

...

I disagree. For me it was about working to the Schedule in the contract. I was contracted to work on Project X. If Project X gets canned I do not have to work on Project Y.

In fact they should be grateful that I'm saving their budget.

IMO, this is where MOO crosses over into 'direction and control'. Nothing is simple. They made sure of that lol probably by accident rather than design but nothing will ever change.

[jmo21]

I disagree. For me it was about working to the Schedule in the contract. I was contracted to work on Project X. If Project X gets canned I do not have to work on Project Y.

In fact they should be grateful that I'm saving their budget.

Ah ok, that's the missing piece in my understanding then.

The link I posted doesn't mention schedule items though, anywhere I could read more?

I'll do a search as well before PedanticLadUK swoops in.

As it happens, none of my contracts have specific project schedule items in them. QDOS have never pointed this out as an issue. They always have MOO clauses though.

[captainham]

Ah ok, that's the missing piece in my understanding then.

The link I posted doesn't mention schedule items though, anywhere I could read more?

I'll do a search as well before PedanticLadUK swoops in.

As it happens, none of my contracts have specific project schedule items in them. QDOS have never pointed this out as an issue. They always have MOO clauses though.

They should at least make reference to the specific project you have been contracted for though? Ok, maybe not the specifics of how to deliver that project precisely, but at least a reference to the main reason why you're there in the first place. Otherwise an (exaggerated for effect) general comment of "Yeah he's just here to do some general stuff, you know" is going to land you in trouble on D&C front.

[northernladuk]

Ah ok, that's the missing piece in my understanding then.

The link I posted doesn't mention schedule items though, anywhere I could read more?

I'll do a search as well before PedanticLadUK swoops in.

As it happens, none of my contracts have specific project schedule items in them. QDOS have never pointed this out as an issue. They always have MOO clauses though.

It's a good point and I have see two different wordings for MOO and QDOS didn't pick up on either. One said will not offer work past the current assignment and the other just said will not offer work (no mention of assignment).

I did always wonder if there was some ambiguity here with one party expecting that means after the assignment and the other thinking it means we can just go tomorrow. The client won't be happy if you pull MOO but they will be happy to enforce time off (so exercising it). You will never get away from that. You are annoyed when they pull it and they are annoyed when you do. The difference here is often a client will give you notice not to come in, we think we can just tell them at 4pm and not come in next day.

I make a point now of making sure that it doesn't say 'after the assignment' and speak with the agent and later the client to make it absolutely sure what it means between us. Most clients don't realise they can use MOO and am quite happy to explain it to them. If they don't understand it they are not likely to use it because of that lack of understanding but if I explain it when I pull it they can't get too upset... If that makes sense? I don't think I am shooting myself in the foot which is a possibility.

I have used MoO albeit as a little work around rather than in anger. A project I was doing service transition for got canned for a period towards year end so client manager approached me about ending the contract 2 months early. I explained it would be better if I exercised MoO and kept the contract running. If the project came back I could come straight back in without all the hassle of doing it officially so of some benefit to him and I could demonstrate I have used MoO. He agreed and I stopped work 2 weeks later (when I found another gig). There wasn't a hope in hell of this work starting in less than 4-6 months so was able to go out and get another gig so was also technically running two parallel contracts helping my IR35 status. This could have ended up a right mess if the project started up again to be fair but felt it worth the risk. Wouldn't have worked without an amicable manager though I guess.

Have to say I wouldn't use MoO to leave a gig like that though, maybe mention it as a last resort. Would rather negotiate my way out than just say I invoke MoO and the piss off. I reckon it wouldn't make a difference to the outcome. Customer wouldn't suddenly understand and say, oh, ok then fine, see you.

[psychocandy]

I did always wonder if there was some ambiguity here with one party expecting that means after the assignment and the other thinking it means we can just go tomorrow. The client won't be happy if you pull MOO but they will be happy to enforce time off (so exercising it). You will never get away from that. You are annoyed when they pull it and they are annoyed when you do. The difference here is often a client will give you notice not to come in, we think we can just tell them at 4pm and not come in next day.

I make a point now of making sure that it doesn't say 'after the assignment' and speak with the agent and later the client to make it absolutely sure what it means between us. Most clients don't realise they can use MOO and am quite happy to explain it to them. If they don't understand it they are not likely to use it because of that lack of understanding but if I explain it when I pull it they can't get too upset... If that makes sense? I don't think I am shooting myself in the foot which is a possibility.

I have used MoO albeit as a little work around rather than in anger. A project I was doing service transition for got canned for a period towards year end so client manager approached me about ending the contract 2 months early. I explained it would be better if I exercised MoO and kept the contract running. If the project came back I could come straight back in without all the hassle of doing it officially so of some benefit to him and I could demonstrate I have used MoO. He agreed and I stopped work 2 weeks later (when I found another gig). There wasn't a hope in hell of this work starting in less than 4-6 months so was able to go out and get another gig so was also technically running two parallel contracts helping my IR35 status. This could have ended up a right mess if the project started up again to be fair but felt it worth the risk. Wouldn't have worked without an amicable manager though I guess.

Have to say I wouldn't use MoO to leave a gig like that though, maybe mention it as a last resort. Would rather negotiate my way out than just say I invoke MoO and the piss off. I reckon it wouldn't make a difference to the outcome. Customer wouldn't suddenly understand and say, oh, ok then fine, see you.

Hmm. Thing is though PLENTY of clients will invoke MOO when it suits them....

I know what some people think on here but it seems that most clients think its OK to invoke these clauses when it suits them (or even pull things like rate cuts half way through) but as soon as said contractor does anything near similar they don't like it.

Don't get me wrong. Try not to do it but what do you do if you're near the end of a dead end project or something and a cracking contract comes up? Kick new contact into touch and stay loyal?

Loyalty and Principles dont pay the bills....

[northernladuk]

Hmm. Thing is though PLENTY of clients will invoke MOO when it suits them....

I know what some people think on here but it seems that most clients think its OK to invoke these clauses when it suits them (or even pull things like rate cuts half way through) but as soon as said contractor does anything near similar they don't like it.

Don't get me wrong. Try not to do it but what do you do if you're near the end of a dead end project or something and a cracking contract comes up? Kick new contact into touch and stay loyal?

Loyalty and Principles dont pay the bills....

The question I have though is... Do they understand they are using MoO or do they just dictate that you shouldn't come in like they do the permies from time to time? I think it makes a big difference when you are going to use it on them?

The example that springs to mind here is xmas break periods. Most of my clients recently have asked that we don't come in over xmas like the permies due to workplace shut down. I point out to them I can still work from home and can carry on billing, if they are not happy with this I point them back to the discussion of MoO when I started and ask them to send me a mail explaining there is no work over the period due to permies being off and as per MoO they cannot offer me work.

They don't realise they are using MoO, instead just saying stay away as the permies do.

To be fair this isn't actually answering your question though sorry.