Reply to: MOO - Anyone ever handed in notice then not turned up again?

[Scoobos]

I've done it, as the client was mis-selling its product to public sector and not for profit organisations and telling them things like they didn't need an internet connection to work , with a cloud based desktop solution.

The bottom line is, I'm my companies most important resource and I'm not risking my personal reputation by being associated with disreputable business practices of a client.

The agent was actually really nice about it, there's a thread on here I'll try and post a link to.

I doubt I'll do it again, as I'm more cautious to be sure the client isn't hoodwinking me during our first meeting.

[Qdos Contractor]

This bit is interesting...I think that's saying that even if you had a contract that completely failed the QDOS review, you are still covered by their TLC35 policy?

The TLC35 policy is risk assessed on the basis of your actual working and business practices. There is a short statement of facts that is completed when you purchase the policy which just covers the main IR35 issues. Obviously much of IR35 is a grey area, so we just ask that you confirm the points to the best of your knowledge.

I wonder if any of these policies will actually stand up to scrutiny if they are ever called upon

We've never rejected a claim and I very much doubt we ever would. If we did I imagine word would spread pretty quickly on places like this.

We've had several new IR35 cases for TLC policyholders in the last couple of months, so it's clear that HMRC are starting to turn the screw.

[d000hg]

I've never had a contract for specific deliverables that I can think of... my clients normally don't have these things mapped out enough and even when they do have 30 tasks to put in over the next 3 months, they would not pre-plan who is doing which. Currently I'm more of an overflow resource... they simply had too much work for the next few months but expect this to be temporary meaning employing a permie is not sensible.

[captainham]

your insurance is not invalidated in any way by our reviews.

This bit is interesting...I think that's saying that even if you had a contract that completely failed the QDOS review, you are still covered by their TLC35 policy?

That's different to the Survive35 one from AbbeyTax which says your contract needs to be passed by them in order to be covered.

But then as has been mentioned here before, I wonder if any of these policies will actually stand up to scrutiny if they are ever called upon. Won't stop me from buying it though, I'm a sucker for a security blanket.

EDIT: And thanks for posting the response from QDOS.

[jmo21]

I asked QDOS, and this is the response I got this morning:

Ideally, the project should be clearly described within the contract; however if it is not, we would not consider this to be a failing point. Therefore if the key tests regarding IR35, such as substitution and control, are covered positively then we would not fail the contract purely based on service description. The main focus should be on your actual working practices, as this is where HMRC will focus. It is important to ensure that you are always working compliantly, as it is not good enough to purely have a compliant contract if the reality is different.

It is important to appreciate that this is simply our professional opinion which may differ slightly from that of other IR35 reviewers and HMRC. Qdos have successfully defended over 1300 IR35 cases and your insurance is not invalidated in any way by our reviews. Therefore you still remain covered under your tax policy.

[Gentile]

Fellow contractor reckoned he did this once. i.e. Handed in notice half way through a contract, then just didn't turn up again for the month or however long it was.

Client and agent went nuts apparently. But contractor quoted MOO and that even though the contract would run for the next month, he was exercising the right to refuse work. Agent had no idea what he was talking about!

Not cool obviously, and I cant imagine you'd be too popular. (and please don't turn this thread into an argument about the rights and wrongs of notice periods etc).

Anyone else ever done this?

Thinking about it - clients seem happy to give contractors notice and even invoke the old no work thing with MOO, so I guess it works other way as well?

(BTW - no contractor in question is not me!)

I've never used MOO to end a contract early, but I've had it done to me when it suited the client to end arrangements earlier than the notice period should have allowed. I'd have no qualms about using it to end a contract that wasn't working out.

[Rabotnik]

I dont disbelieve what you have said but Im absolutely gobsmacked QDOS dont pick this up! Everyone one of my contracts that have been reviewed by B&C, they have beefed up this ie project specific deliverables.

This is why I think QDOS' IR35 insurance wont be worth the paper its written on if \ when contractors who have taken their product get caught by HMRC.

Each to their own though.

I have also never had the deliverables thing flagged on my QDOS reviewed contracts (4 reviews so far). I've actually had to request they be added after they've passed the review!

[jmo21]

I dont disbelieve what you have said but Im absolutely gobsmacked QDOS dont pick this up! Everyone one of my contracts that have been reviewed by B&C, they have beefed up this ie project specific deliverables.

This is why I think QDOS' IR35 insurance wont be worth the paper its written on if \ when contractors who have taken their product get caught by HMRC.

Each to their own though.

Thanks for the advice!

I'm on my 4th contract now, all reviewed by QDOS, all passed fine, none mention a specific project, so I'm now a little nervous and annoyed.

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt though and ask them about this.

Maybe they will post on this thread if thy spot it, but I'll report back too

[BolshieBastard]

Ah ok, that's the missing piece in my understanding then.

The link I posted doesn't mention schedule items though, anywhere I could read more?

I'll do a search as well before PedanticLadUK swoops in.

As it happens, none of my contracts have specific project schedule items in them. QDOS have never pointed this out as an issue. They always have MOO clauses though.

I dont disbelieve what you have said but Im absolutely gobsmacked QDOS dont pick this up! Everyone one of my contracts that have been reviewed by B&C, they have beefed up this ie project specific deliverables.

This is why I think QDOS' IR35 insurance wont be worth the paper its written on if \ when contractors who have taken their product get caught by HMRC.

Each to their own though.

[Crack Addick]

Personally I don't know one person that has been made redundant and hasn't got a better job. Permies need that kind of schizzle else they would never leave a job to get a better one.

WHS +1 Too many permies sit in jobs they hate, earning peanuts and working themselves towards a heart attack.

Still jealous of the payoffs though........

[psychocandy]

haha! 2 days before his holiday!

Some people are mental when it comes to their jobs.

Blind loyalty in your friends case, money (assumption that doing things like that will get them the next promotion\bonus).

**** that!

His argument was that his job was the most important because it provided him with the income to pay the bills. And that his Mrs should put up with it because that was the way it was.

He used to think I had a bad attitude. LOL. It was a bit sad when it all happened because he was totally deflated by the way he was treated.

He didn't bother in the end but he was going to fight the crap because it was untrue and make them see sense. It was a total stitch up to cut costs without doing it properly by the company in question. Pointless fighting it - just screw them for what you can get out of the final deal.

Funnily enough the guy who they brought in to deal with all this a few weeks before (obviously, as the hatchet man!) lived in next street to me. Tempted....

[jmo21]

Yeh. I agree with you. Act like a twat and let people down and word will get around.

But, ultimately, you do whats best for you? Bottom line.

Not sure if I've told this story. A mate of mine helped get me a permie job years ago. Mate loved this company and would do anything. One year he cancelled his holiday two days before going because the company asked him to do some urgent work. His wife went nuts. I told him he was off his nut but he wouldn't have it.

A year later, suddenly he's out the door same day as me with a few others. Company didn't even do redundancies properly - just put everyone on trumped up disciplinary for conduct and then said leave, sign this agreement, and we'll pay you x amount. Otherwise you're suspended.

Mate was gutted. Never seen a guy so deflated. Of course, we all got kicked out the building straight away. Mate thought manager in question would save him (the one he'd cancelled his holiday and done the work for). Tried ringing him, left messages, never ever got to speak to him.

Lesson learnt.

haha! 2 days before his holiday!

Some people are mental when it comes to their jobs.

Blind loyalty in your friends case, money (assumption that doing things like that will get them the next promotion\bonus).

**** that!

[psychocandy]

I do find it strange that people seem to think that word gets around about individuals of which there are many, but never seems to get around about companies of which there are fewer.

I had a similar story at a permie job I had. We were doing a MRP roll out and everyone had been asked by the MD not to take holidays during go live, which kept moving back and back due to management ineptitude so it ended up spanning about 3 months over summer. Come the end of the year, lots of people hadnt taken their full holiday entitlement and were expecting either to transfer them to next year or be paid for them having done the company a favour in not taking them. MD's position was if you hadnt used them you've lost them!

If you have ever read Crystal Singer by Anne McCaffrey you might remember her saying that gratitude for past favours is dependent on memory of them.

Sometimes the ineptitude of some companies (present client included) totally amazes me even after 20+ years in the industry.

As does, some companies ability to treat employees/contractors like complete tulipe if it suits them.

[northernladuk]

If you have ever read Crystal Singer by Anne McCaffrey you might remember her saying that gratitude for past favours is dependent on memory of them.

She the Dragonriders of Pern writer?

[escapeUK]

Yeh. I agree with you. Act like a twat and let people down and word will get around.

I do find it strange that people seem to think that word gets around about individuals of which there are many, but never seems to get around about companies of which there are fewer.

I had a similar story at a permie job I had. We were doing a MRP roll out and everyone had been asked by the MD not to take holidays during go live, which kept moving back and back due to management ineptitude so it ended up spanning about 3 months over summer. Come the end of the year, lots of people hadnt taken their full holiday entitlement and were expecting either to transfer them to next year or be paid for them having done the company a favour in not taking them. MD's position was if you hadnt used them you've lost them!

If you have ever read Crystal Singer by Anne McCaffrey you might remember her saying that gratitude for past favours is dependent on memory of them.