Have been offered an NHS role but offered an extension in current private sector role

[escapeUK]

But how can a contract stipulate what tax is payable? Is that a legal clause - if unfair notice periods, etc, are not then this seems even more 1-sided.

Or perhaps they will simply issue all contracts using PAYE so you don't get the choice? In one way that would be neater but isn't that how it used to be pre-IR35, where employers were responsible if a contractor was deemed an employee?

They should stand by their morals and stop employing contractors, then its no longer a problem. Its not as if they are getting superior skill sets given most public sector projects are complete failures anyway. Might as well employee mr permie on £35k and fail, than expensive contractor no tax paid on £100k and still fail.

[centurian]

But how can a contract stipulate what tax is payable? Is that a legal clause - if unfair notice periods, etc, are not then this seems even more 1-sided.

If it was worded like that, then it probably wouldn't be legal.

But it's not - they are inserting clauses which enable them to enquire as to the tax/NI structure you are using. If you resist/refuse, or they don't like what they see, then they will just cancel the contract using whatever cancellation clause is in the contract anyway.

So to flip your question around - why wouldn't that be legal.

[kingcook]

If it was worded like that, then it probably wouldn't be legal.

But it's not - they are inserting clauses which enable them to enquire as to the tax/NI structure you are using.

...which is none of their business.

What clauses will come next? Clauses to ensure that you're not spending too much of your money on drink or drugs? To ensure that you don't spend any of it on call girls?

[centurian]

...which is none of their business.

But that doesn't make it illegal.

Remember they can cancel your contract for virtually any reason - that's the whole point of why they take on contractors. They can cancel your contract because they don't like the colour of your shoes, so they can certainly cancel your contract because they are not satisfied with assurances of your tax structures.

Think about it - how could you have any regress. You can't take them to an industrial tribunal. You can only sue them as a B2B entity for breach of contract - but if the contract says they can unconditionally issue cancellation notice whenever they like - they are not in breach of any clauses.

[centurian]

This chap seems to think the guidelines won't apply to the NHS

<snip?

Although...

We only supply the NHS, no one else

Translation: Our opinion that the guideliness won't apply the NHS is pure wishful thinking, because if it does apply, we're screwed.

[bluetoaster]

Translation: Our opinion that the guideliness won't apply the NHS is pure wishful thinking, because if it does apply, we're screwed.

to be honest that is the view I get from my agent, who also specialises in suplying the NHS. He got his accountant to give me a call and what I got was that he can't see it happening in the next 10 to 15 years. I view that as wishful thinking.

[cojak]

I've already blown out an agent emailing me for an NHS contract - they are desperately trying to reassure contractors with a bag of smoke and a box of mirrors.

[d000hg]

But that doesn't make it illegal.

Remember they can cancel your contract for virtually any reason - that's the whole point of why they take on contractors. They can cancel your contract because they don't like the colour of your shoes, so they can certainly cancel your contract because they are not satisfied with assurances of your tax structures.

Think about it - how could you have any regress. You can't take them to an industrial tribunal. You can only sue them as a B2B entity for breach of contract - but if the contract says they can unconditionally issue cancellation notice whenever they like - they are not in breach of any clauses.

A B2B contract might allow all kinds of crazy things but they don't view us as real businesses, and an employment contract CAN'T be unfair to the employee.

Even B2B, we don't live in an unregulated capitalist society where a company can stipulate anything it wants.

[centurian]

A B2B contract might allow all kinds of crazy things but they don't view us as real businesses, and an employment contract CAN'T be unfair to the employee.

Even B2B, we don't live in an unregulated capitalist society where a company can stipulate anything it wants.

How they view us will be irrelevant. It's the contract that counts. If it is an employment contract (or you can argue that it is), then yes, there will be all sorts of safeguards. But then you will be completely and utterly slam dunk IR35-caught, which kind of defeats the object of opposing this change.

B2B contracts have considerably more lattitude.

But even if a specific clause is deemed to be unenforeable - general contract law is that the other legal clauses still hold true. And if you have signed a contract where ClientCo has the right to cancel the contract by issuing a stated notice, then you have no legal recourse if they issue that notice correctly.

Here's how the conversation will go.

ClientCo: We want to inspect your accounts under clause 14 of the contract.
d000hg: I don't think that clause is legal. You can't force me to show my the accounts.
ClientCo: Mmmmm. We have checked and you are absolutely right. We cannot enforce clause 14.
ClientCo: (2 mins later) - Clause 15 allows us to terminate the contract with 4 weeks notice. We hereby invoke clause 15, effective today.
ClientCo: (2 mins after that) - Clause 16 means we don't have to provide you any work, or pay you. As of today, we have no work for you. Please close the door behind you.

[d000hg]

Yes, until a gaggle of people take the issue to court and companies have to stop putting it in the contract.