Agent needing to see passport when they have already seen scans

[Optimus]

Is that aimed at me or NLUK ?

If it is at me, I know how to stay outside IR35. I've been there, done that and got the T shirt.

I asked NLUK to give me a practical example of these 'working practices' that he continually quotes to others. So far, i've seen nothing constructive.

To be honest it wasn't addressed to any one in particular; all I was saying is that if you have 'lived' and 'survived' IR35 then it would be great and deeply appreciated if you could share your knowledge. I definitely agree with you in terms of having 'real life' examples/experiences rather than keep advocating the 'theoretical' aspect of survival, which also has benefits but may be not as tangible.

[northernladuk]

Go read this and then send Kate Cotteral a mail telling heat she is talking crap then

Why many IR35 contract reviews just got more worthless :: Contractor UK

I fully understand TMs point and it's a good one and will certainly following his advice in future but I just can't understand how going to a client and acting like a permie is not going blow your .IR35 out of the water.

[BolshieBastard]

I always understood 'working practices' together with the reality of the contract situation ie whether the upper contract agrees with the lower (contractor) contract were pretty central to being outside IR35 as Cottrell and others have said.

hMRC will twist everything to suit themselves. People are a little foolish imvho if, they just depend on a written contract to be outside IR35 (how many times have we seen people post 'I've got so and so in my contract so Im IR35 safe'?) when in reality, their contract may not reflect that between the agent and client and the working reality is the contractor is told what to do, when to do it by and to all intents and purposes, how to do it (the work).

Having said that, I've had contract reviews by B&C but Im not sure whether any of these got changes to the upper contract as Kate suggests!

[Justin Control]

When I've agreed to do some work for a client I don't wait for them to send me a contract.

I send MY T&C's to them or (very rarely) their agent.

Negotiations start from there.

[northernladuk]

And .IR35 aside banging on to newbies about working practices is not bad advice. I for one am sick of new guys coming in and acting like permies. Someone at my last gig complained they didn't get a yearly review when the permies did and next thing I know we get the same form the permies used asking us to fill it in a book a face to face feedback session with our manager. ******* morons.

[quackhandle]

TM and BB: how do you view the comment from QDOS on contract review here?

qh

[TestMangler]

Go read this and then send Kate Cotteral a mail telling heat she is talking crap then

Why many IR35 contract reviews just got more worthless :: Contractor UK

I fully understand TMs point and it's a good one and will certainly following his advice in future but I just can't understand how going to a client and acting like a permie is not going blow your .IR35 out of the water.

NLUK, lets not fall out over this dear

I'm not saying kate is talking crap either, but you already know that. I also never said that working practices weren't important. All I did was ask you for a practical example of some working practice you put in place to make you 'not part and parcel of the organisation' and in that context, how would you do it in a way that client evidence, when requested by HMRC for an enquiry, would answer that ?

What i'm trying to get at is that lots of people talk about working practices, but don't seem to know what they are or mean.

I was seeking clarification of that.

[TestMangler]

TM and BB: how do you view the comment from QDOS on contract review here?

qh

My comment would be that, in reality, I used a Hays substitution clause which is normally considered to be 'too fettered to be used in reality'. legal opinion on that contract clause aside, I invoked it.

If I remember correctly, the contract ref no was HIT/20. B&C reviewed that particular contract (not for me) and described it as 'borderline defendable'

[TestMangler]

And .IR35 aside banging on to newbies about working practices is not bad advice. I for one am sick of new guys coming in and acting like permies. Someone at my last gig complained they didn't get a yearly review when the permies did and next thing I know we get the same form the permies used asking us to fill it in a book a face to face feedback session with our manager. ******* morons.

Right, so there is a practical example like wot I asked for. Wasn't so hard, was it ??

[BolshieBastard]

TM and BB: how do you view the comment from QDOS on contract review here?

qh

TBH, I dont rate QDOS as regards contract reviews. I think lots of people are on a wing and a prayer with their IR35 proof insurance. It appears too good to be true.

I prefer to stick with b&C myself.