Agent needing to see passport when they have already seen scans

[TestMangler]

10 posts back? Who bothers reading that far back? Much better just to pitch right in.

I always assumed that working practices are important when HMRC is challenging your contract (RoS as a sham etc.) but that this doesn't apply the other way round.

But maybe I was making an ass out of u and umption.

I was referring to NLUK's advice to the OP about getting his contract reviewed being just the start and he had to get his working practices sorted. I asked him for some real life examples of how he does this to the point where any client co evidence would work in his favour in an IR35 enquiry. So far, no practical examples have been given, by anyone.

I just get irked when I see people giving 'advice' that is clearly flawed to newbies and disguising themselves as experts at the same time.

[Old Greg]

I was referring to NLUK's advice to the OP about getting his contract reviewed being just the start and he had to get his working practices sorted. I asked him for some real life examples of how he does this to the point where any client co evidence would work in his favour in an IR35 enquiry. So far, no practical examples have been given, by anyone.

I just get irked when I see people giving 'advice' that is clearly flawed to newbies and disguising themselves as experts at the same time.

You're in the wrong place then mate. They should go to QDOS if they want decent advice.

[TestMangler]

You're in the wrong place then mate. They should go to QDOS if they want decent advice.

Exactly, so maybe some of the IR35 experts on here should just post that as advice instead of the bollocks they currently do.

[Old Greg]

Exactly, so maybe some of the IR35 experts on here should just post that as advice instead of the bollocks they currently do.

Maybe noobs could just use the FAQ in my signature.

[Payso]

Ok quite a lot to digest here.

I am reading the amended contract now.

The statement of assignment refers to my LTD as the 'Consultancy', myself as the representative and the nature of consultancy as 'Lead UI developer'.

I assume this is ok as the nature of my LTD is consultancy?

I recall a while back that someone posted that they should only ever be referred to as 'contractor'.

[SueEllen]

Ok quite a lot to digest here.

I am reading the amended contract now.

The statement of assignment refers to my LTD as the 'Consultancy', myself as the representative and the nature of consultancy as 'Lead UI developer'.

I assume this is ok as the nature of my LTD is consultancy?

I recall a while back that someone posted that they should only ever be referred to as 'contractor'.

Does your contract has a section where it defines the terms such as "consultancy" and "representative"?

It should do as you could be called anything within reason as long as the term is defined.

[malvolio]

Fascinating stuff, chaps. Haven't laughed so much in years.

You don't avoid an IR35 investigation by virtue of your working practices, what phone you use or how big your inside leg measurement is. You get investigated because of poor filing history, inconsistent returns or because you're just that week's unlucky winner. Someone mentioned the In Business tests: they, as I have said before, are useless, inaccurate and voluntary and can be ignored. Looking like a business is a good idea, but that's not about how you do the day job, it's about all the other stuff - including knowing how your business works and what the rules are.

If you are investigated, it will hinge on the degree of D&C exercised by the client and/or on there being an irreducible level of Mutuality and/or whether or not you have the right to send a substitute. Each has to exist in reality, not merely as a clause in a contract: go look up the Dragonfly case. The contract is used to clarify any ambiguities. That's what we mean by correct working practices: if you're hired as a coder, don't go doing testing because the client tells you to. It's not rocket science.

And if you want definitive advice and guidance, join the PCG and read their member's only guides to anything and everything.

HTH. Probably won't.

[TestMangler]

Fascinating stuff, chaps. Haven't laughed so much in years.

You don't avoid an IR35 investigation by virtue of your working practices, what phone you use or how big your inside leg measurement is. You get investigated because of poor filing history, inconsistent returns or because you're just that week's unlucky winner. Someone mentioned the In Business tests: they, as I have said before, are useless, inaccurate and voluntary and can be ignored. Looking like a business is a good idea, but that's not about how you do the day job, it's about all the other stuff - including knowing how your business works and what the rules are.

If you are investigated, it will hinge on the degree of D&C exercised by the client and/or on there being an irreducible level of Mutuality and/or whether or not you have the right to send a substitute. Each has to exist in reality, not merely as a clause in a contract: go look up the Dragonfly case. The contract is used to clarify any ambiguities. That's what we mean by correct working practices: if you're hired as a coder, don't go doing testing because the client tells you to. It's not rocket science.

And if you want definitive advice and guidance, join the PCG and read their member's only guides to anything and everything.

HTH. Probably won't.

Absolutely agree with that, but how many times have people (and I don't just mean NLUK) advised noobs to get 'their working practices in order'. All I did was ask for a practical example of how they do that. What is the point of advising someone to do that when it can't be backed up with lower level advice and info ?

So far, all we've had is rubbish about refusing to appear in org charts and internal phone directories.

I'm genuinely asking (and want the answer) to how these so called working practices are implemented by the people who recommend them, other than by a written confirmation of working arrangements as I suggested in my first contribution to this thread. I don't see telling a large banking client that you won't tell them when you're taking your holidays and that the 'will not control you' as being the answer

[malvolio]

Absolutely agree with that, but how many times have people (and I don't just mean NLUK) advised noobs to get 'their working practices in order'. All I did was ask for a practical example of how they do that. What is the point of advising someone to do that when it can't be backed up with lower level advice and info ?

So far, all we've had is rubbish about refusing to appear in org charts and internal phone directories.

I'm genuinely asking (and want the answer) to how these so called working practices are implemented by the people who recommend them, other than by a written confirmation of working arrangements as I suggested in my first contribution to this thread. I don't see telling a large banking client that you won't tell them when you're taking your holidays and that the 'will not control you' as being the answer

Sigh...


1. Do what it says you do in the schedule to your contract to the best of your abilities: that's what you're being paid for.

2. Don't do things that aren't. If the client wants them, it's a separate (or amended) schedule or some other written agreement to take on the additional work.

3. Don't press for payment when you've done no work (and that includes notice periods).

4. Make your own plans about when you aren't going to be in work. Clearly, being a professional, you will take note of the clients' interests, but it's not their decision.

5. If possible make your position as a contractor, as opposed to a wage slave, clear. Many clients do this for you; my ID badge and GAL entry says "Contractor" on it, at my last gig I had a qualified email address. All little things but they all help prove you are not part and parcel of the organsiation.

6. Don't wait for a CoA letter. You likely won't get one (it compromises the client's contractual agreements badly) and even if you do get one it can and will be refuted in court ("Sorry, m'lud, the PM is not authorised to make that decision...")

7. Think like a business. Keep out of career paths, politics, personnel issues and permie gripes. You're an independent, hired for yor specific expertise. Behave like one

Like I said, it's not rocket science. Unless, of course, you're designing rockets.

[TestMangler]

Sigh...


1. Do what it says you do in the schedule to your contract to the best of your abilities: that's what you're being paid for.

2. Don't do things that aren't. If the client wants them, it's a separate (or amended) schedule or some other written agreement to take on the additional work.

3. Don't press for payment when you've done no work (and that includes notice periods).

4. Make your own plans about when you aren't going to be in work. Clearly, being a professional, you will take note of the clients' interests, but it's not their decision.

5. If possible make your position as a contractor, as opposed to a wage slave, clear. Many clients do this for you; my ID badge and GAL entry says "Contractor" on it, at my last gig I had a qualified email address. All little things but they all help prove you are not part and parcel of the organsiation.

6. Don't wait for a CoA letter. You likely won't get one (it compromises the client's contractual agreements badly) and even if you do get one it can and will be refuted in court ("Sorry, m'lud, the PM is not authorised to make that decision...")

7. Think like a business. Keep out of career paths, politics, personnel issues and permie gripes. You're an independent, hired for yor specific expertise. Behave like one

Like I said, it's not rocket science. Unless, of course, you're designing rockets.

Right, well, f##k me, It took far too many posts to get somewhere, but there we are.

OK, to the OP, read Malvolio's post.

Working practices does not mean what you are usually told it does, like refusing to use client co equipment, refusing to appear on org charts or telephone directories, or pissing off on holiday/sick without letting anyone know and answering questions from client managers with "I iz a businezz, innit, it's got nuffink to do wiv you".

PS - Mal, It's not actually me who needs telling, I already know. I was simply seeking clarification from the usual 'advice givers', none of whom saw fit to respond with anything more detailed than 'working practices'.