Agent needing to see passport when they have already seen scans

[Payso]

I emailed the client the situation with the contract review and he was perfectly reasonable as one would expect. He gave no indication of going anywhere else so have every reason to believe the agent is talking complete tulip

I look forward to playing hard-ball over the contract when it comes back from QDOS later.

[Payso]

Looks like the agency has crumbled and are going to speak to QDOS to get the contract amended more favourably in terms of the substitution clause.

[northernladuk]

Looks like the agency has crumbled and are going to speak to QDOS to get the contract amended more favourably in terms of the substitution clause.

Foodstuffs. You got over the first hurdle but now the important bit. Your working practices are much more important so read up on what you should and shouldn't do. All well and good having these in your contract but if your client won't honour them you are back to square one.

[TestMangler]

Foodstuffs. You got over the first hurdle but now the important bit. Your working practices are much more important so read up on what you should and shouldn't do. All well and good having these in your contract but if your client won't honour them you are back to square one.

I've said this before, but I'll say it again

If you are investigated for IR35, the first thing to be looked at is your contract. I'll say that again, "YOUR CONTRACT". HMRC may, or may not, at that point decide to request client evidence by showing sending them a neatly loaded questionnaire. It is at that point that 'working practices' or client perception of them, comes in to play. Making points to your client, like "I don't phone in sick" or "I don't ask for holidays" will not save you from IR35, so the working practices are the least of your worries. What is important is where the HMRC questionnaire ends up If it ends up with some HR bod, they will be fairly likely to answer the questions to the detriment of your case. If it falls on someone you work with every day who has an ounce of common sense, they will come to you and speak to you about it first.

In my particular case, the HMRC questionnaire was sent back with 'Refer To Contract' as the answer to 90% of the questions.

The best thing to do is, up front, get the client to sign a confirmation letter of your working practices as this can pre-empt and negate the request for client evidence request. I've got an old one somewhere that I'll try and find, but it's from a few years ago so can't guarantee that i'll manage it.

[northernladuk]

I've said this before, but I'll say it again

If you are investigated for IR35, the first thing to be looked at is your contract. I'll say that again, "YOUR CONTRACT". HMRC may, or may not, at that point decide to request client evidence by showing sending them a neatly loaded questionnaire. It is at that point that 'working practices' or client perception of them, comes in to play. Making points to your client, like "I don't phone in sick" or "I don't ask for holidays" will not save you from IR35, so the working practices are the least of your worries. What is important is where the HMRC questionnaire ends up If it ends up with some HR bod, they will be fairly likely to answer the questions to the detriment of your case. If it falls on someone you work with every day who has an ounce of common sense, they will come to you and speak to you about it first.

In my particular case, the HMRC questionnaire was sent back with 'Refer To Contract' as the answer to 90% of the questions.

The best thing to do is, up front, get the client to sign a confirmation letter of your working practices as this can pre-empt and negate the request for client evidence request. I've got an old one somewhere that I'll try and find, but it's from a few years ago so can't guarantee that i'll manage it.

Indeed you do but we have also seen case law where this isn't the case so not something to be ignored. To tell a newbie his contract is ok so he is fine is bad advice as he doesn't know what you do. The only way to be safe is to make sure both sides are sealed up tighter than a Yorkshiremans wallet. The op must make sure his working practices are water tight as well. The confirmation letter is indeed a good idea but there is nothing wrong with warning people to keep an eye on working practices.

[TestMangler]

Indeed you do but we have also seen case law where this isn't the case so not something to be ignored. To tell a newbie his contract is ok so he is fine is bad advice as he doesn't know what you do. The only way to be safe is to make sure both sides are sealed up tighter than a Yorkshiremans wallet. The op must make sure his working practices are water tight as well. The confirmation letter is indeed a good idea but there is nothing wrong with warning people to keep an eye on working practices.

Agree, to an extent, but can you give me an example of something that you mean by 'working practices' that is tangible and useable as evidence ?

As Denzel washington once said, It's not what you know, It's what you can prove !

[Scoobos]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to TestMangler again.

We've gone round this a few times, but I follow your strategy myself.

The biggest issue is that the people you work with are often long gone by the time HMRC investigate. It goes to HR who treat everyone as full time as they just don't know what they are doing with us.

[northernladuk]

Agree, to an extent, but can you give me an example of something that you mean by 'working practices' that is tangible and useable as evidence ?

As Denzel washington once said, It's not what you know, It's what you can prove !

The client control in the JLJ case crucified him for a start as did the fact his sub clause wouldn't have been honoured so deemed a sham.

Anyway..tell me how far you believe working practices are irrelevant? All this about different badges, using same systems and processes as permies etc. All this is meaningless then? You get an .IR35 safe contract and everything else doesn't matter?

[TestMangler]

The client control in the JLJ case crucified him for a start as did the fact his sub clause wouldn't have been honoured so deemed a sham.

Anyway..tell me how far you believe working practices are irrelevant? All this about different badges, using same systems and processes as permies etc. All this is meaningless then? You get an .IR35 safe contract and everything else doesn't matter?

I didn't say that, and you know it

What I'm saying is, you can't negate the 'control' element the client may think they excercise over you by saying 'You cannot control me' every day to your hiring manager. So, in terms of working practices, lets take control as an example, how do you go about, in practical terms, ensuring that the client does not control what you do and ensuring that HR know that 'you cannot be controlled' ?

In a lot of posts, you tell people to ensure that their working practices are correct. All I'm asking for is one practical example of how you do this

[Optimus]

I didn't say that, and you know it

What I'm saying is, you can't negate the 'control' element the client may think they excercise over you by saying 'You cannot control me' every day to your hiring manager. So, in terms of working practices, lets take control as an example, how do you go about, in practical terms, ensuring that the client does not control what you do and ensuring that HR know that 'you cannot be controlled' ?

In a lot of posts, you tell people to ensure that their working practices are correct. All I'm asking for is one practical example of how you do this

And I'm totally lost... is it not possible to post some basic fundamentals re avoiding IR35 investigation? I came across a quetionaire once that gave you points for marketing, having other people work in the same LTD company as yourself etc.. the higher the points the less chances there were of an investigation. However, I misplaced the paper and cannot recall the entire contents or origin!