"What rate shall I put you forward at?"

[malvolio]

Not a lot. But I'd rather be a lot more comfortable than that.

Not available data.

All that's known is "Project Manager in <region>, public sector, mentions PRINCE2 and change, three months with possible extensions".

It could be in a city centre running a large formal business transformation project as part of a major programme, or putting in a server refresh in some right out-of-the-way office. It might be a seat-of-the-pants one-person project where I'm doing everything, it might be managing a project team of 12 analysts / developers etc. with hundreds of stakeholders.

I'll do either, but unless I guess the rate range they're thinking of, I'll either not be shortlisted or not considered serious.


Hmm. Reading the responses, maybe I pitch myself too low. Perhaps my answer should be

"I'm looking for £y + 50 per day"

and accept I won't get the quick and easy projects and continue sitting on my arse waiting for the big hard roles.

It is available, assuming you talk to the agency before they put you forward. You might have to think on your feet a little, of course...

The problem with "current + £50" is you price yourself out of the market very quickly. If you want to go that route, current +15% is probably more realistic.

Also it depends on the deal the agency has with the client. If he's on a fixed percentage, it's to their benefit to get you the best rate they can 'cos that pays them more as well. Sadly, these days, it doesn't work like that very often. Most big clients have their own role-based rate cards and the little ones haven't usually got the budget. You also get tossers such as acertain large Bristol-based insurer who runs a reverse auction - "send me your three best CVs and we'll take the cheapest", which rather buggers everything up for everyone (and they wonder why they keep having failed projects and late deliveries...).

So it's all a bit of a lottery. The only rule is that you should be happy with what you're getting. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't go in with a clear idea of what that should be.

[northernladuk]

The problem with "current + £50" is you price yourself out of the market very quickly. If you want to go that route, current +15% is probably more realistic.

But is this true?? Can you price yourself out of a contract?? Part of me says yes, part says no. If you are the right man for the job and are most likely to get placed the agent is going to want to put you forward as you are sure money for him. If he knows the client will pay a max of £300 but you go for £400 will the agent just drop you because you are too expensive i.e. you priced yourself out?? Surely the agent will come clean with you and say well the agent is offering £275 and work with you so he can get you placed. You might try bartering and eventually accept the £300. Win all round. The agent wouldn't take a value from you that is too high and put you up for that with the client knowing it is too much or drop you because you are too expensive? Is it not in his interests to get you placed? Going for the second alternative who is cheap enough but not as attractive to the client is no good as another agent might get the work?

Am I being naieve here and giving the agent too much credit by assuming they will think about what they are doing and place the right candidates most like to get the role????

Offering too much will price you out if it is a straight sale yes but the agents commission is also based on you so you can't price yourself out, he just can't pay it so will offer what he can?

[malvolio]

But is this true??

Not always, but there is an upper limit. Also it depends on how you work: if you want to have two year contracts then fine, but if you change rather more often you have to think a little more carefully.

Offering too much will price you out if it is a straight sale yes but the agents commission is also based on you so you can't price yourself out, he just can't pay it so will offer what he can?

Like I said, that is the minority option these days. Clients are cash-strapped (or pretend they are) and have a clear limit on what they will pay. The agent that goes in with an out-of-bounds quote won't get the work, so they don't have the freedom they had even three years ago. Add to that PSLs and other margin limiting tricks (one agency I know is on a flat fee per contractor per month, for example) and it all gets a bit tricky.

Bid high, by all means, but bid realistically.

[Old Greg]

I find it frustrating as well and tend for the current rate + 10%, but as an OP said, there is another side. I went out to tender for a training programme for a client last week. The budget was £x, but we didn't tell anyone. The bids came in between £x -5% and £x -70%. It would have been a bit uglier if we'd put the budget out there.

[amcdonald]

Am I being naieve here and giving the agent too much credit by assuming they will think about what they are doing and place the right candidates most like to get the role????

I always assumed that they're try and get several suitable candidates and put forward the one on the cheapest rate, and then try and get the highest rate possible from the client

[wantacontract]

My standard reply is always (and say it quickly to try and get them to respond quickly) is "what is the client's budget?"

This often works 7/10, they can then ofcourse come back with the "there isn't one set in place." I then state the rate is best discussed after the interview stage, and let's get the CV in front of the client first, and etc, etc....

[d000hg]

I don't see the problem. Any business I ever had trying to supply me, they start off with an initial quote/rate and we go from there.

Ask the agent what the other candidates are wanting.

[MaryPoppins]

I don't see the problem. Any business I ever had trying to supply me, they start off with an initial quote/rate and we go from there.

Ask the agent what the other candidates are wanting.

Why?

Going in too high isn't always a winner, but neither is going in too low IMO; having been watching current clientco bin a few CV's from candidates asking for (in their opinion) too low a rate for the roles they have.

I have a rate I won't go below, so I always state that +20% to give me some wiggle room. That's probably about 50% higher than the rate I can't go below.

[TykeMerc]

Indeed Mary, I could afford to work for quite a bit less than the lowest rate I will accept.

[Wanderer]

Basically, they are looking to skim the rate, they KNOW EXACTLY what the client is paying, if its 600 and you say 400, they are laughing.

To be fair, they don't always. I've worked for clients where we've needed someone and we just asked the agency to get us some CVs and get them to tell us what rate they wanted. Each one was considered on it's merits. Some cheaper but less able, some more able but more expensive.

Other times, we've said "OK get me someone in, the rate is X per day". If they can get someone good at under that rate then that's great. The agency were on a fixed margin though so they couldn't go ripping contractors off.