Why sign a contract before you start?

[Hiram King Of Tyre]

I started work this week at 'MyClient' having been offered a contract, had the contract and working practices reviewed by Qdos and after a few minor alterations, agreeing that both contract and working practices are outside of IR35.

I am working through 2 agencies (client's agent and my own)

On Wednesday, client's agent, send me a whole pack of information and documents to review and sign up to. They are all put together in a pack called 'The Client Temporary Recruitment Handbook - Information for Temporary contractors'. This pack to me (even by name) would indicate that I'm a temporary employee rather than a 3rd party supplier.

So far I have said (to my agency) that I have already signed my contract and that if it was required for me to agree to other substantial documents then they should have been included in the contract that I paid to have reviewed. I have said that I cannot sign further documents of this nature without them being reviewed by Qdos for IR35 compliance and that if there was a charge for reviewing these variations in contract that I would need to pass on any associated costs. My agency have not replied to any emails yet.

Client's agent say that they can't give me a log-in to the time recording system until they have received my sign-off and that I need to decide whether I wish to continue with the contract. My response so far is that I do wish to continue with the contract as agreed and not a variation that hasn't been reviewed and agreed.

Has anybody else met this problem?

[MarillionFan]

Nose. Face. Spring to mind here.

Sign it, carry on.

If at a later date you need to show HMRC your contract. Just give them the contract you have with the agency. No one would know.

[northernladuk]

Have you actually read through the pack and understood it?

I think you will find it full of data decurity, ownership of work, H&S compliance, policies etc...

You are not signing an agreement, you are signing that you agree to comply and be bound by them. This is not the same as contract, it is just legal stuff ot make sure the company has done due diligience to advise you of policies and legal requirements. This is different to contracts.

[Hiram King Of Tyre]

Crikey, it sounds so simple....

It is full of data retention, security stuff etc yes but it also tells me about annual leave, how I will be paid, and says that I can't do any work that might not be in the clients best interests (thereby restricting my trade which I understand is a key IR35 indicator. Also, it may be too 'controlling'.

[deckster]

Crikey, it sounds so simple....

Yes, really - it is simple. You take a commercial decision: do you want to sign this and take the risk of putting the contract inside IR35 (any associated costs of mitigating this risk, or reviewing the contents are of course your own and the idea of passing them onto your client is frankly astonishing) or do you refuse to sign and lose the contract. Only you can know whether the contract is worth keeping or not.

[Hiram King Of Tyre]

Not sure why you find that astonishing. I was given a contract that I paid to have reviewed. If the client now wishes to change the contract, I should be able to charge them at least what is costs me to review, negotiate and agree the changes.

[CheeseSlice]

Crikey, it sounds so simple....

It is full of data retention, security stuff etc yes but it also tells me about annual leave, how I will be paid, and says that I can't do any work that might not be in the clients best interests (thereby restricting my trade which I understand is a key IR35 indicator. Also, it may be too 'controlling'.

Can you just speak to the client about the payment related blurb (and anything else that worries you about IR35), and say you're going to cross it out with a marker pen or a black biro. Then get them to initial next to the deletions, and put your initial next to them, before signing at the bottom.

It would be even better if they could print out a separate copy with those bits removed.

[Hiram King Of Tyre]

My agent is looking in to it and trying to negotiate something more IR35 friendly

[SueEllen]

Can you just speak to the client about the payment related blurb (and anything else that worries you about IR35), and say you're going to cross it out with a marker pen or a black biro. Then get them to initial next to the deletions, and put your initial next to them, before signing at the bottom.

I was actually told by a lawyer years ago that if she doesn't agree with parts of contracts for things she crosses them out, signs them and sends them back to the company.

I've done this. It p*sses agents off but they do change the contract especially if you tell them that otherwise they will get a communication for your lawyer.

[northernladuk]

I was actually told by a lawyer years ago that if she doesn't agree with parts of contracts for things she crosses them out, signs them and sends them back to the company.

I've done this. It p*sses agents off but they do change the contract especially if you tell them that otherwise they will get a communication for your lawyer.

That is interesting, I wonder how many agents would actually realise by putting a cross through them would mean it is out and just accept it?

P.S.. Like my new sig SueEllen

It is full of data retention, security stuff etc yes but it also tells me about annual leave, how I will be paid, and says that I can't do any work that might not be in the clients best interests (thereby restricting my trade which I understand is a key IR35 indicator. Also, it may be too 'controlling'.

Go through each doc and understand them. The security and data retention you sign to agree and abide by them. Nothing to do with IR35. Annual leave you just don't sign, it is not applicable to you, how you will be paid I guess is ok but they want you to sign that?? Make sure there is no gotcha's in it. I thought this would just be advisory?
The last one, can't do work that might be in the clients best interests is an interesting one. It is pretty standard to have a handcuff clause so you can't go work for a competitor/client for a period (anything over 6 months is not enforceable). This has no bearing on IR35 as it is protecting the clients interests and doesn't affect your work in this contract. Is that how it is worded?

You also need to see if there is conflicting clauses in your main contract to this subset. Does you main contract cover payment periods, handcuff clause and so on that is duplicated here?