Reply to: Why sign a contract before you start?

[Svalbaard]

So are you saying that signing to say I will comply with a 'Temporary Recruitment Handbook' will not affect my IR35 status?

Is the market that bad out there?

First off, the chances of you being investigated under IR35 are small.

Secondly, and as a previous respondent stated : if you do get investigated, the worst that will happen is that you will be liable for a small extra %age in tax due. If you are running a limited company then you should have this sitting in your business account anyway, or you can set this aside in a contingency pot if it makes you feel better and safer - this allows you to show that due to the uncertainty around your current situation, that you were dilligent in your approach and prudent in your management of the potential risk.

Third, is the market bad? Not as far as I can see, but I am in a very highly paid contract in a specialist area. I have no idea what area you work in so I cannot answer this question for you. However, what is worse - you having no contract because of your flapping over this non-issue? Or you having contract, earning money, but managing those risks accordingly? Surely that is the better place to be in a proposedly volatile market?

[Hiram King Of Tyre]

So are you saying that signing to say I will comply with a 'Temporary Recruitment Handbook' will not affect my IR35 status?

Is the market that bad out there?

[SueEllen]

They don't but I was told that once my time is approved on their system, they pay agency 1 who then pay agency 2 who then pay me whether I've raised an invoice or not? Hence I will raise an invoice immediately my time is approved. That way, as far as I'm concerned, they will be paying against my invoices (which is what the contract says)

As normadd indicated you are being over the top with this. Lots of companies and agencies do self-billing - it's not a big thing and it is not related to IR35.

Also when it comes to getting paid the biggest thing is to ensure you get paid and paid the correct the amount for the work you do, not whether they pay you before you raise an invoice or not.

If you don't want to get paid for the work you have done you are going the right way about it............

[nomadd]

They don't but I was told that once my time is approved on their system, they pay agency 1 who then pay agency 2 who then pay me whether I've raised an invoice or not? Hence I will raise an invoice immediately my time is approved. That way, as far as I'm concerned, they will be paying against my invoices (which is what the contract says)

Dude, I've read all you posts on this thread. If you don't mind me saying, you are plain, fooking mad.

You have a contract. It's been vetted. Job done. All you now have to do is take the money and run. That's what contracting is all about.

You are flapping over a simple Client Policy document. My last 4 contracts have all been for Banks, and they all insisted this stuff is signed before they even let you set foot in the building.

The IR35 thing is incredibly unlikely to affect you. Ever. If it does, you'll have to pay some additional tax. That's a lot better than - as another poster kindly told you - than "cutting your nose off" and losing a contract and all the income from it.

I'm not sure which country you are living in at present? Over here in the UK, the economy is in a dire mess, and it's going to get far worse. Having a contract position at all is a blessing. So throwing one away over something as petty as a Policy document is plain, fooking idiotic, IMHO. Still, your call.

[Hiram King Of Tyre]

I thought you had agencies involved this means it's your agency who pays your company not the client directly.

If the client has gone to the trouble of using an agency to ensure you can't claim to be their employee why would they pay your company directly?

They don't but I was told that once my time is approved on their system, they pay agency 1 who then pay agency 2 who then pay me whether I've raised an invoice or not? Hence I will raise an invoice immediately my time is approved. That way, as far as I'm concerned, they will be paying against my invoices (which is what the contract says)

[SueEllen]

Nothing....

However, they won't give me access to it untill I sign a declaration that I will comply with their 'Temporary Recruitment Handbook'. The other issue is that I understand.....erm I mean suspect that their time recording tool will then generate payment into my LtdCo bank account.......not very IR35 friendly.

I thought you had agencies involved this means it's your agency who pays your company not the client directly.

If the client has gone to the trouble of using an agency to ensure you can't claim to be their employee why would they pay your company directly?

[Hiram King Of Tyre]

Not paying on time isn't a breach of contract and it certainly won't stand up to any legal scrutiny. They are a bit late, you get your money, you are not out of pocket so no case. Can be annoying but thats it. 7 days is very good, we often have to battle to get it down to 14 days. My last gig tried 45 days!! If they were a couple of days late on 7 days I certainly wouldn't be worried.

agreed. it will be interesting to see if they pay though as it looks like they won't get paid though as I will have circumnavigated their time recording tool

[Hiram King Of Tyre]

What's the issue with completing the client's time recording tool?

I tend to have my own as well so the client has to sign/approve my company's one as well.

Nothing....

However, they won't give me access to it untill I sign a declaration that I will comply with their 'Temporary Recruitment Handbook'. The other issue is that I understand.....erm I mean suspect that their time recording tool will then generate payment into my LtdCo bank account.......not very IR35 friendly.

[northernladuk]

I've emailed one of the managers and asked him to agree my time and expenses for this week which he has done. I'll now invoice the agency over the weekend and will then be in full accordance with my contract. Their payment terms are 7 days. However, they won't get paid until I fill out 'myclient's' correct time recording tool. Can you see them exposing themselves in this way or will they breach their own contract?

Not paying on time isn't a breach of contract and it certainly won't stand up to any legal scrutiny. They are a bit late, you get your money, you are not out of pocket so no case. Can be annoying but thats it. 7 days is very good, we often have to battle to get it down to 14 days. My last gig tried 45 days!! If they were a couple of days late on 7 days I certainly wouldn't be worried.

[nomadd]

Nose. Face. Spring to mind here.

Sign it, carry on.

If at a later date you need to show HMRC your contract. Just give them the contract you have with the agency. No one would know.

WHS.

[SueEllen]

I've emailed one of the managers and asked him to agree my time and expenses for this week which he has done. I'll now invoice the agency over the weekend and will then be in full accordance with my contract. Their payment terms are 7 days. However, they won't get paid until I fill out 'myclient's' correct time recording tool. Can you see them exposing themselves in this way or will they breach their own contract?

What's the issue with completing the client's time recording tool?

I tend to have my own as well so the client has to sign/approve my company's one as well.

[Hiram King Of Tyre]

I've emailed one of the managers and asked him to agree my time and expenses for this week which he has done. I'll now invoice the agency over the weekend and will then be in full accordance with my contract. Their payment terms are 7 days. However, they won't get paid until I fill out 'myclient's' correct time recording tool. Can you see them exposing themselves in this way or will they breach their own contract?

[Hiram King Of Tyre]

That was my thoughts exactly. I have a 1 week termination clause in the 1st 4 weeks.

It's a shame really as the work,people and the company all seem OK

[SueEllen]

If the issue isn't resolved, this could be a very short contract. What's the market like out there?

OK for me.

I suggest you start looking asap while negotiating the changes in this contract. If they take to long and fail, or simply don't come through then at least you have somewhere else to go.

[Hiram King Of Tyre]

Because if you have had a lot of short contracts it's not worth HMRC turning you over.

If the issue isn't resolved, this could be a very short contract. What's the market like out there?