Ask the agent. The Good, the bad and the ugly

[SofaKingdom]

The first being that there's only one hairdresser in the town who is any good. So we all go there.

Bromley?

[chef]

For the sake of clarity - the plan is to sell the car, not the baby.....

I was just about to ask..

[Wanderer]

So I've started thread as an "ask the agent" exercise.

Respect to you for putting your head in the lions den, you are a brave man.

So, here's a couple of questions, starting with IR35.

I understand that working practices ultimately determine IR35 status, not the contract, but if a contract is NOT IR35 compliant then the contractor is pretty much stuffed. If the contract IS IR35 compliant then at least people have a fighting chance of operating outside IR35.

I don't know about your company's contracts specifically but can you comment generally on why agents don't offer IR35 compliant contracts from the outset, forcing contractors to get a review done and then negotiate to get changes made?

Notice periods. What do notice periods in contracts mean and why is the meaning not clear in the contract?

What would happen in these scenarios if the contract was terminated because either the client would not or could not offer any further work to the worker or the worker would not or could not work for the client any more. Imagine a typical contract, no project deliverable stated just "consultancy services" to be provided for 6 months.

6 month contract, no notice period stated.

6 month contract, 1 month notice period for client or consultant.

What happens if either party terminate the contract?

[Wanderer]

Simple. Stop selling senior contractors in units of three months and start selling them to deliver specific objectives at a fixed cost.

Great idea, but it's not the agent that is driving the market, they only sell what the client wants to buy. A lot of the time the agency (and the clients for that matter) can't even read CVs or a job spec, what chance do we have of getting a properly defined project spec and deliverables from them.

We can live in hope though.

[Wanderer]

Many agents do not truly take the risk of a client not paying on time and instead shift the risk on to the contractor.

Simple answer to that - don't opt out of the Agency regs.

[d000hg]

Why should an agency care about IR35? Their priority is a contract which protects them, not helping contractors sort out their tax affairs.

[d000hg]

Simple. Stop selling senior contractors in units of three months and start selling them to deliver specific objectives at a fixed cost. Set me up with a per diem retainer for running expenses and a completion payment or penalty for overruns. Go really mad and engage me as a supplier on a B2B basis and we can both forget about the Regs and IR35.

Because software projects are easy to spec up in terms of duration and cost. I work doing B2B, bringing in sub-contractors, etc, and I make a point of charging for work done. Cost per project is for RentACoder unless you are prepared to spend a LOT of time and money on the design phase of a project, or just guess and hope to be within 20%

[malvolio]

Because software projects are easy to spec up in terms of duration and cost. I work doing B2B, bringing in sub-contractors, etc, and I make a point of charging for work done. Cost per project is for RentACoder unless you are prepared to spend a LOT of time and money on the design phase of a project, or just guess and hope to be within 20%

I'm not a coder either. However if the objective is to deliver a working application that has passed UAT and gone live, or move 1800 servers to a new datacentre, or deliver a robust BCP solution to someone who hasn't currently got one, what's the problem. The variables are time agaisnt available manpower; it makes no sense to buy in three months of effort if you probably only need two, or even four. How many times have we read about people scratching around for work 'cos the job's done and dusted but they still have a month to go on their contract?

The trick with changing working models is not to start from where we are now.

[d000hg]

Oh, I see what you mean from that angle. I don't know that needs a big systematic change though. Hire a contractor on a rolling monthly contract with an expected duration (which may or may not actually mean anything formally), and clauses that contractor can't just cut and run half-way through the job without penalties, and (maybe) client has to give notice to stop using contractor's services. Most of this is not far from a normal contract, and a proper B2B relationship between big companies often has notice periods so one can't leave another in the lurch.

[malvolio]

Oh, I see what you mean from that angle. I don't know that needs a big systematic change though. Hire a contractor on a rolling monthly contract with an expected duration (which may or may not actually mean anything formally), and clauses that contractor can't just cut and run half-way through the job without penalties, and (maybe) client has to give notice to stop using contractor's services. Most of this is not far from a normal contract, and a proper B2B relationship between big companies often has notice periods so one can't leave another in the lurch.

OK, but the thing with rolling contracts that follow the usual agency-led model is that Hector sees them as classic IR35 fodder. Hence a proper B2B contract for the supply of services gets around that minor problem...

Also "This contract terminates immediately on successful delivery of the objective or on nth Julember, whichever comes first." would be a useful clause. Nothing to say you can't then negotiate a continuation if the work to date warrants it, is there...?