Is there any reason to ever declare being inside IR35?

[Babbage]

And what if it turns out you are inside?

Then that contract is one to be avoided, or the rate needs to be much higher to give the same NET pay.
I wouldn't take on a contract that knowingly dragged me inside the IR35 scam.

[MarillionFan]

Then that contract is one to be avoided, or the rate needs to be much higher to give the same NET pay.
I wouldn't take on a contract that knowingly dragged me inside the IR35 scam.

Really?

Or could you just choose to treat it as if it was outside and do it anyway?

[Wanderer]

Isn't this something along the lines of tax avoidance and ignorance of the rules is no defence.

But if you took reasonable steps to determine that your contract was outside of IR35 (and there isn't really any clear guidance from the IR on this) then would you have plausible deniability? If your professional advisor says you are outside IR35 and you take their word for it (not being an expert in complex tax law) then would you get away with just paying the tax owed or would you pay a penalty?

Does anyone know someone who has been caught with their pants down on an IR35 contract?

If you are going to do this you might as well fiddle your expenses, doctor your tax returns and incorrectly fill in you VAT and pray every night?

Deliberately fiddiling your expenses is quite a different matter.

[AngelOfTheNorth]

Then that contract is one to be avoided, or the rate needs to be much higher to give the same NET pay.
I wouldn't take on a contract that knowingly dragged me inside the IR35 scam.

Funny how some people on here have been on the bench for up to a year and here you are swanning about picking and choosing your contracts as you please.

[d000hg]

Funny how some people on here have been on the bench for up to a year and here you are swanning about picking and choosing your contracts as you please.

Maybe he's good.

[northernladuk]

Really?

Or could you just choose to treat it as if it was outside and do it anyway?

WHS.

Someone asked about cases. Didn't Dragonfly lose their case? There is a page on the HMRC website with list of them. Even a dancer that said he was contract but he had to be there on time to practice so he lost his case and was deemed employee so its not just IT people.

[NotAllThere]

...In my eyes, 90% of contractors on the board are disguised employees. ...

Fortunately the courts don't use the MF definition of being a disguised employee, they use the employment law definitions, so lack of moo, substitution etc. are taken into account, and only ever having one client etc. are not (or at worst, are weak indicators).

If you know you are inside IR35, and claim you are not, that is tax evasion. The trick is to know that you're not, and have evidence to demonstrate that your understanding that you were out is reasonable, even if wrong. That way, you'll only have to pay the tax owing + interest.

[MarillionFan]

Fortunately the courts don't use the MF definition of being a disguised employee, they use the employment law definitions, so lack of moo, substitution etc. are taken into account, and only ever having one client etc. are not (or at worst, are weak indicators).

If you know you are inside IR35, and claim you are not, that is tax evasion. The trick is to know that you're not, and have evidence to demonstrate that your understanding that you were out is reasonable, even if wrong. That way, you'll only have to pay the tax owing + interest.

No of course. But, the reason for the poll in general is. I believe that the probability of having an HMRC audit and challenging a contract that you have called Outside(when it is inside) is low, very low.

So based on those probabilities (which i believe to be about a 1 in 7, ie. once in seven) years, then it would be more beneficial to call all contracts Outside, and (feign dumb ignorance and then show that you 'worked out you were outside' using whatever method) just cough up a fine if you ever got caught.

[NotAllThere]

Fair point.

[northernladuk]

Fair point.

I think someone has hacked MF's account