Do decent agents exist? where???

**Denny** · 28 November 2005, 12:00

Originally posted by davebarkshire

I'm tempted to enter the contract market (c#, sql etc) and have heard only bad things about the agents from contractors and from the forum on this site. It really feels like there is a brick wall inbetween me and the contract market. When I have contacted agents in the past I have found the experience fustrating and off putting.

I survive on 'word of mouth' 'work from home' projects at the moment but would like to do some time in the city and earn some decent money.

My question is this...

Is there a site out there that lists 'the good guys' (and separately lists the bad ones) so that I can find an honest agent? (Stop laughing, there must be one out there?)

There isn't unfortunately. Much depends on the clients relationship with the recruiter, and that will drive the relationship and what the recruiter says to you. Also, it's all down to personal experience and whether you're in the right place at the right time. It doesn't really matter what agency to go to, some contractors will have a satisfactory outcome from one recruiter and someone else's experience will be very different. Recruiters are simply mouthpieces for their clients and their own agency senior bosses and they exist for their own living from meeting billing targets and this will also drive the relationship between you and the recruiter at any particular time.

The only objective 'good' or 'bad' criteria you can go is below:

Check that an agency is solvent or not. It's worth checking that out, because if you agency goes under whilst you're on contract you may not get paid. Read about Aristotle, Eurolink and so on. Many contractors got stung badly using these agencies.

Avoid agencies that have a reputation for rigid terms and conditions they won't alter, or even tell you which umbrella services you can use based on a list of acceptable companies. What you do with your payment method should be your business and the IR's not there's. Also avoid being represented by agencies that insist you opt out or ask too many questions about what interviews you currently have set up. Normally they're just fishing for leads.

Some may lie and say they are first tier suppliers when they aren't so you need to check what they say about this, and get them to verify it in writing. A recruiter who is telling the truth about that will not mind that request. If they are not, just wannabe gamblers for the contract, you're application may go nowhere with the client and your CV will just get binned if they turn out not to be on their list of PSLs.

Apart from the above points, there is really no such thing as a good or bad agency, only good and bad clients and good and bad relationships.

**privateeye** · 28 November 2005, 12:30

I have come across some good individual recruitment consultants, though when you speak of agencies (companies they work for) I would say no there aren't any. It all depends on where these individuals are working at any one time whether you will get a good honest service or not.

A lot of what denny said is true, but one point to bear in mind is that some agencies will if you use an umbrella for example insist that you don't use certain ones that they know cause them problems beccause of non-payment etc so don't always take that as them being too restrictive. For a more unbiased opinion put a posting here.

**jonhoops** · 28 November 2005, 12:50

Originally posted by privateeye

one point to bear in mind is that some agencies will if you use an umbrella for example insist that you don't use certain ones that they know cause them problems beccause of non-payment etc so don't always take that as them being too restrictive.

As an agent, which umbrella company a contractor uses is very important to me. The key thing is to make sure that the umbrella is fully compliant with all the wishes of my client (insurance etc). Secondly, I need to make sure all monies are paid through the UK (i.e no dodgy offshore accounts). Thirdly, I need to make sure they pay on time and are financially stable (no hassle from contractor). You would be surprised how many umbrellas cannot guarantee these three fairly simple things. And as such I have a list of umbrellas I use and I do not stray from that list as it only leads to problems. This way I am 100% sure of the stability and service of the company and know that I and the contractor won’t have any problems

**malvolio** · 28 November 2005, 13:11

Which prompts an interesting question - just why are you, as an agent, interested in how your suppliers are renumerated from the money they earn from your end client? Do you take the same interest in BT, or the bloke from the courier company? Surely it makes no difference at all to either your cashflow or that of your end client.This is at the heart of the whole debate. If clients and agents started to treat contractors as suppliers and not temps, a huge amount general FUD would be swept away. Your reply above is entriely correct from your perspective, but in reality I would have no problems at all if the agent took a fee for getting me the work and a further fee for acting as the invoicing factor to smooth my cashflow. That is all we really want you to do.

Sadly, both of us are now stuck into a perpetual loop of negotiating contractual detail that actually adds no value to anyone's business (apart from Bauer and Cottrell's, I suppose!).

**jonhoops** · 28 November 2005, 14:02

Originally posted by malvolio

Which prompts an interesting question - just why are you, as an agent, interested in how your suppliers are renumerated from the money they earn from your end client?

Sadly, both of us are now stuck into a perpetual loop of negotiating contractual detail that actually adds no value to anyone's business (apart from Bauer and Cottrell's, I suppose!).

I am interested because the money contractors goes through my company. Were you involved in any dodgy dealings I would guilty by association becuase you could quite easily wash your money through an agency.

But you're right, I don't particularly want the hassle of all this, but this was the system that started and it seems to have stuck.

**privateeye** · 28 November 2005, 14:08

A rogue agent will try to insist a contractor use an umbrella simply becuase of the back-hander/commission that the agent receives - they do not care whether the contractor gets paid or not.

Good agents such as the way jonhoops describes himself will warn the contractor of the dangers of using people they know to be bad. If the contractor is not happy/not getting paid they will not renew the contract or find a way out of doing it and the agency loses to. It can also protect the contractor from dodgy dealings

It is in the best interests of the Agent to provide whatever business intelligence he has to ensure the contractor gets paid etc.

**jonhoops** · 28 November 2005, 14:54

True, and it is not only unethical but downright illegal for a recruiter to recommend an umbrella company to a contractor. The whole industry is obviously governed by the FSA and they are very clear - agents cannot recommend umbrella's.

All I am allowed to do is reply to a direct question, "e.g. do Umbrella Company A pay your contractors on time?"

Conversely though, it is not illegal for the umbrella companies to bung agents £50 for introducing contractors to their services.

Originally posted by privateeye

A rogue agent will try to insist a contractor use an umbrella simply becuase of the back-hander/commission that the agent receives - they do not care whether the contractor gets paid or not.

Good agents such as the way jonhoops describes himself will warn the contractor of the dangers of using people they know to be bad. If the contractor is not happy/not getting paid they will not renew the contract or find a way out of doing it and the agency loses to. It can also protect the contractor from dodgy dealings

It is in the best interests of the Agent to provide whatever business intelligence he has to ensure the contractor gets paid etc.

**DodgyAgent** · 28 November 2005, 15:20

simple answer

Originally posted by davebarkshire

so that I can find an honest agent? (Stop laughing, there must be one out there?)

They tend to go bust

**Alexander Coe** · 28 November 2005, 15:20

Originally posted by davebarkshire

but would like to do some time in the city and earn some decent money.

My question is this...

Is there a site out there that lists 'the good guys' (and separately lists the bad ones) so that I can find an honest agent? (Stop laughing, there must be one out there?)

In my experience, if you're looking for city contracts, its always been a case of contacting agents that have a role on offer that i'm interested in, or in signing up with agencies which regularly posts relevant contracts - I've personally never had the luxury of deciding which agent to use, based on how honest they are etc...

It terms of agencies with good reputations - my last contract was with one of the top-tier investment banks, they (at least our dept) had a list of 8 or so preferred agencies, which they used which included:

Hudson, Huxley, Ashton Carter, Mba, OTX, Abraxas

When I've been looking for city contracts, a fair amount of the available ones, with bigger name city companies (at least, the trade floor related roles), seem to pass through above agencies.

However, sounds like you've haven't got city experience yet, in which case, your probably going to struggle to get good city contracts - until you've got some experience (maybe this is part of the reason you found contacting agents frustrating in the past?)

There are lot of other agencies that will have contracts for smaller city firms that will be less anal about you requiring '3/4 years experience in a similar background' before they consider you for the role.

If your serious about contracting in the city, why not submit you CV to some of the agencies above or the smaller ones advertising relevant contracts and see what kind of reaction you get...

HTH

Do decent agents exist? where???