Do decent agents exist? where???

[Mindomoo]

So............

If you don't believe that a UK registered company working for a UK client on a UK project should pay UK tax then you should take it up with the taxman.

All am i interested in with regards to umbrella companies is that my contractors use one that won't get me or my agency sued/prosecuted/investigated.

Yes we all pay the relevant amount of tax.

But what you seem to want to ensure, in a round about way, is that none of your contractors operate outside IR35.

Would you deal with a limited company contractor rather than one using a brolly?

If so, would you try to tell him how he is to pay himself? I'd like to see you try.

There is no difference, from your point of view, between the two.

[jonhoops]

I honestly hadn’t realized that anyone would have any objections to the way I approached umbrella companies. I thought I was just protecting my business. As for which agency I work at… well I would have been happy to reveal that a couple of days ago. But seeing how you all seem to think that I am a complete pimp I don’t think it would do me any favours. I have found this site to be quite helpful in terms of understanding contractor’s opinions of agents and their practices. It seems, however, that no matter what agents do you will never have a positive view of them. So I think its pointless me being here. So I’ll leave you contractors to it and unsubscribe. Just one point first – we’re not all out to screw you. Some of us are just trying to make a living. So perhaps you could give us a little slack.

[expat]

I have found this site to be quite helpful in terms of understanding contractor’s opinions of agents and their practices. It seems, however, that no matter what agents do you will never have a positive view of them.

Oh dear. In the very thread where I was moved to exclaim "Bravo, Dodgy!"

[expat]

I honestly hadn’t realized that anyone would have any objections to the way I approached umbrella companies. I thought I was just protecting my business.

I suppose the gist of it is that we see your demanding the contractor use only certain umbrella companies, as being rather like telling us which bank or accountant we have to use; i.e. none of your damn business. Advice appreciated, orders resented.

[DodgyAgent]

I So I think its pointless me being here. .

That must be the first true words ever spoken by an agent.

What irks me about them is that they set themselves up by trying to put corporate gobbeldeygook spin on everything they say. They make no attempt to engage in any sort of intelligent debate.

Here am I trying my hardest to sort you lot out. The last thing I need is other agencies giving you losers ammunition to fire back at me.

[expat]

That must be the first true words ever spoken by an agent.

So that's the second?

[Mindomoo]

Imho........

Its a case of this:

1. Agents get hastle from the client due to IR35 inspections

2. Agents cant or wont give true IR35 free contracts

3. Agents are under pressure to stop the hastle in (1) above

4. Hence they want to pay more attention to how we are paid (even though its non of their business) in order to try to ensure we pay 65% tax and give the clients an easy life.

Sadly, i see no easy solution.

[Dundeegeorge]

Of course there's an easy solution

Its a case of this:

1. Agents get hastle from the client due to IR35 inspections

2. Agents cant or wont give true IR35 free contracts

3. Agents are under pressure to stop the hastle in (1) above

4. Hence they want to pay more attention to how we are paid (even though its non of their business) in order to try to ensure we pay 65% tax and give the clients an easy life.

Sadly, i see no easy solution.

Contracts which demonstrate the fact of a business-to-business relationship between the contractor and the client, not an employee-employer one.
DUR

[Mindomoo]

Which was my point (2)

Agencies either cant or wont do this. Which it is I dont know.

Until they can be convinced to do this, I see no easy solution.

[malvolio]

I dunno, leave you alone for two days and you find a whole new enemy... As I said a while back -

This is at the heart of the whole debate. If clients and agents started to treat contractors as suppliers and not temps, a huge amount general FUD would be swept away. Your reply above is entriely correct from your perspective, but in reality I would have no problems at all if the agent took a fee for getting me the work and a further fee for acting as the invoicing factor to smooth my cashflow. That is all we really want you to do.

Mr Hoops and Mr Dodge have signally failed to answer that point, but that is not the issue. It is the unwillingness of the bulk of the agencies to throw away 15 years of ever-more complex contractual rubbish and stop feeding complete FUD to the end clients that is doing the damage, nothing else.

If you don't believe you're wasting everyone's time, go read the Muscat ruling when it comes out and you may well find that employment rights may still accrue despite all the panolpy of agencies and LtdCos and contractual statements.

I try to work like a business, as best I can in this particular market place. I would be more than happy to do all my work against a standard Purchase Order to a fixed cost for a fixed deliverable or an equivalent amount of time. Chances of anyone ever giving me one? Nil.