Do decent agents exist? where???

[Not So Wise]

I am interested because the money contractors goes through my company. Were you involved in any dodgy dealings I would guilty by association becuase you could quite easily wash your money through an agency.

Sorry that is a totally crap argument. One could just as easly say you should open up your agencys and your personal accounts to our scrutiny because we (any contractor working though you) don't want to be guilty by association if you or your agencys are doing any dodgy dealings with the moneys you earn from our contract.

Hell by same logic i could demand the same from the local corner store where i get my cigs every morning, you neer know they could not be declaring it on their books and using it to fund terrorists!!!

To get any kind of "guilt by association" case against you, you would have to clearly and beyond doubt know that the contractor was doing something illegal and thats very simple to make sure it never happens...just simply don't ask, because it is none of your buisness anyway, just as it it none of mine what you do with yours.

[boredsenseless]

[QUOTE=expat][QUOTE=DodgyAgent]What are you doing getting involved in picking umbrella companies for contractors, it is none of your business??? Check them out by all means, yes. But......

Bravo, Dodgy!

I sort of agree with both, jonhoops as a business has every right to decline to do business with a company he suspects of being

a) unable to provide resource on an ongoing basis since the contractor has walked out as the umbrella didn't pay

b) will be unable to provide resource on an ongoing basis since they've been shut down for doing things wrong

c) gives him so much sh1t that it just isn't worth it.

So he can decide who he works with, he just can't tell you who you can work with - that would be wrong, he is however completely allowed to say I'm sorry but Hoops Ltd is no longer willing to enter into contracts with Leaky Umbrella Ltd due to previous experiences. If you want the contract still please choose another. - he just can't suggest which other, or how you actually get paid.

[Not So Wise]

he just can't suggest which other, or how you actually get paid.

But thats the point, if you read his posts that is what he is clearly trying to do, dictate how you get paid and with a limited list of agencys he will only work with he is not "suggesting" another umbrella, he is forcing contractors to use them or don't take the contract (why do i get the feeling he works for an agency with "computer" in the name?)

His stated worrys are not just how well these umbrellas interface with his agencys, or even how well they interface with the contractor (which would be valid concerns but not when limits all dealing to a limited list of umbrella's and rules out all others even if never dealth with them before or knows nothign about them), but he also wants to know exactly what they are doing in case they are doing "something ilegal" such a offshore accounts (which funny enough are not illegal, just how you might operate them might be) or considering yourself outside ir35 and making savings there.

[boredsenseless]

But thats the point, if you read his posts that is what he is clearly trying to do, dictate how you get paid and with a limited list of agencys he will only work with he is not "suggesting" another umbrella, he is forcing contractors to use them or don't take the contract (why do i get the feeling he works for an agency with "computer" in the name?)

His stated worrys are not just how well these umbrellas interface with his agencys, or even how well they interface with the contractor (which would be valid concerns but not when limits all dealing to a limited list of umbrella's and rules out all others even if never dealth with them before or knows nothign about them), but he also wants to know exactly what they are doing in case they are doing "something ilegal" such a offshore accounts (which funny enough are not illegal, just how you might operate them might be) or considering yourself outside ir35 and making savings there.

I'm in total agreement with you.

However I have to support jonhoops companies directors (he may be one for all we know) to exercise their rights as officers of a company to trade only with parties that believe are not a risk to their business.

We all get to choose who we work and sign contracts with - surely even agents are afforded the same rights.

[jonhoops]

But thats the point, if you read his posts that is what he is clearly trying to do, dictate how you get paid and with a limited list of agencys he will only work with he is not "suggesting" another umbrella, he is forcing contractors to use them or don't take the contract (why do i get the feeling he works for an agency with "computer" in the name?)

His stated worrys are not just how well these umbrellas interface with his agencys, or even how well they interface with the contractor (which would be valid concerns but not when limits all dealing to a limited list of umbrella's and rules out all others even if never dealth with them before or knows nothign about them), but he also wants to know exactly what they are doing in case they are doing "something ilegal" such a offshore accounts (which funny enough are not illegal, just how you might operate them might be) or considering yourself outside ir35 and making savings there.

Look, I'm not trying to be totalitarian about this. I talk to all the contractors that I put forward about the situation, explain my position and listen to what they say. Their have been cases where contractors have refused to change becuase they love the service/charges they recieve with the umbrella. In that case we sought and recieved assurance that the contractor would pay the relevant levels of tax in the UK and comply to any other wishes from my client (which usually come from large corporate legal departments and can be quite detailed). I have never had any problem with contractors over this situation - they tend to see where I'm coming from.

As for me working for "somewhere with computer in the name" - i have never and would never. i don't spend my day phishing or playing tricks on contractors, I spend my day trying to get them work. I would much rather that the umbrella companies all provided great service to me and the contractor and were fully compliant with all my clients wishes.

In fact I'd rather that you would all set up your own limited companies.

[boredsenseless]

In that case we sought and recieved assurance that the contractor would pay the relevant levels of tax in the UK and comply to any other wishes from my client (which usually come from large corporate legal departments and can be quite detailed). I have never had any problem with contractors over this situation - they tend to see where I'm coming from.

Okay I take it back I don't agree with jonhoops anymore, I'm all for people saying that they won't work with certain companies we are all allowed to do that, but I disagree with an external party telling a legally seperate and non-governable entity how to disperse its profits.

Its not right and the sooner we all agree to tell clients/agents/umbrellas where to stick contracts that have these stipulations the better we all will be.

[jonhoops]

Okay I take it back I don't agree with jonhoops anymore, I'm all for people saying that they won't work with certain companies we are all allowed to do that, but I disagree with an external party telling a legally seperate and non-governable entity how to disperse its profits.

Its not right and the sooner we all agree to tell clients/agents/umbrellas where to stick contracts that have these stipulations the better we all will be.

If you don't believe that a UK registered company working for a UK client on a UK project should pay UK tax then you should take it up with the taxman.

All am i interested in with regards to umbrella companies is that my contractors use one that won't get me or my agency sued/prosecuted/investigated.

[DodgyAgent]

If you don't believe that a UK registered company working for a UK client on a UK project should pay UK tax then you should take it up with the taxman.

All am i interested in with regards to umbrella companies is that my contractors use one that won't get me or my agency sued/prosecuted/investigated.

Amen to that. In other words 99% of all businesses

[Cowboy Bob]

If you don't believe that a UK registered company working for a UK client on a UK project should pay UK tax then you should take it up with the taxman.

All am i interested in with regards to umbrella companies is that my contractors use one that won't get me or my agency sued/prosecuted/investigated.

Who do you work for?

You might as well say since it will save everyone's time if you ever come calling as an automatic decline is better for both parties and will save time.

Bob

[DodgyAgent]

If you don't believe that a UK registered company working for a UK client on a UK project should pay UK tax then you should take it up with the taxman.

All am i interested in with regards to umbrella companies is that my contractors use one that won't get me or my agency sued/prosecuted/investigated.

So that means that you are happy to deal with 95% of all limited companies then?

I just sometimes wonder about these anally retentive muppets that pass themselves off for agents as to whether they really have any idea of what they are doing. Despite all my derogatory comments about contractors in the past, the dynamic is that contractors are our customers. We need to attract the most suitable contractors to our jobs. Putting up barriers to make life difficult for contractors in order to accommodate what is effectively arrogance and laziness is entirely self defeating.