Market Picking Up??

[SuperZ]

After reading the post from Deskter I heard about a permanent position myself and have put myself forward for it - something I thought I wouldn`t consider doing for a number of years if ever at all. However, the attractions are the chance to work with clients through the job (making me new contacts for the future) and lots of training - both very beneficial for when I return to contracting .

The downturn won`t last forever. As contractors and self-employed, we have to allow and expect such times now and again. The good times will return. If a decent permie job was offered I`d take it for a while, if not, I don`t mind battening down the hatches until the good times return again - I`m not going to panick. Besides, taking time out from the normal working life can be quite healthy with the right approach and if prepared for it.

[Contractor999]

Dealing with recruitment Consultants

As a contractor who was an Agency-side recruiter in the old days, but managed to escape from the Dark Side, I have one or two tips about using agencies.

Firstly, DON'T! Companies, by and large, are impressed by people who seek them out. a lot of big ones have sourcing strategies which put agency candidates low down the pecking order. An agency is the most expensive way to hire, so firms that hire lots of people have developed other routes to market. Show some intitiave and go looking for companies you want to work for and search their sites and relevant job boards.

If you do need to use an agency, don't share with them the opportunities you are currently exploring...never give them a lead to chase down. I have known applicants blown out of the water because they told an agency about a job they were on the shortlist for, and that agency filled the job themselves!!

Be very clear about what you are interested in and what you are not. Set the ground rules. Luckily the really bad ones have already gone to the wall, but be careful.

[lukemg]

It is horrendous out there but remember it can turn round in a phonecall.
After nearly 5 months out and no interviews I got 2 interviews and 2 contract offers. Taken the closer one that pays the most (both in recession proofish sectors) which is 20% higher rate than I have ever had.
I have got the last 5 contracts I have been interviewed for but without interviews there is no chance to pitch !! V.frustrating..
Good luck all.

[expat]

...
If you do need to use an agency, don't share with them the opportunities you are currently exploring...never give them a lead to chase down. I have known applicants blown out of the water because they told an agency about a job they were on the shortlist for, and that agency filled the job themselves!!
...

This is obviously really sound advice, though it's surprising how long it can take to grasp fully the fact that the agent who is your source of income if they get you a contract, is also your biggest competitor if you are not with them.

It's not always easy to avoid of course: if an agency calls you with a prospective contract but you are already in for it via another, what do you do?

1. If you identify the contract and then admit to them that you are already in for it, they want someone else in. I.e. they want you to fail.
2. If you don't admit that you are in already, then they will put you forward. Result: CV in twice. They will tell you that that is guaranteed disaster, but I am not sure that I believe it. Actually I'm not sure that they always put your CV in.
3. Stall? Any tips on how?


No 2 is possibly the way.
- You will lose out on cases where both agencies really do put your CV in, and the client bins them because of that.
- You will win in the case where the first agency was lying about putting your CV in.
- You will be even in cases where the client doesn't reject instantly because of double posting of CV.
- You will be even in the case where the first agency really did put in your CV, and the second lies about it.
I suspect that the wins might outweigh the losses.

[moorfield]

It's not always easy to avoid of course: if an agency calls you with a prospective contract but you are already in for it via another, what do you do?

1. If you identify the contract and then admit to them that you are already in for it, they want someone else in. I.e. they want you to fail.
2. If you don't admit that you are in already, then they will put you forward. Result: CV in twice. They will tell you that that is guaranteed disaster, but I am not sure that I believe it. Actually I'm not sure that they always put your CV in.
3. Stall? Any tips on how?

Tricky one, I have worked in quite niche areas so a lot of pimps - and therefore their competitors - know who I am and that I am availble. I've tried both option 1) and 2) a few times but these approach seem to annoy pimps in equal measure. How do others handle this?

[expat]

Tricky one, I have worked in quite niche areas so a lot of pimps - and therefore their competitors - know who I am and that I am availble. I've tried both option 1) and 2) a few times but these approach seem to annoy pimps in equal measure. How do others handle this?

Pardon me if I mistakenly gave the impression that not annoying pimps is one of my aims

[Ivor Bigun]

Take the contract at £350 a day then when the market returns to normal
then give notice like everybody else and apply for the £500 day job.

When the market picks up there is going to be a storm. Do you thing that all the contractors who have extended or accepted lower rates are going to stick around £150 day short?

Slumdog, the gravy train's been and gone. Its now in an Indian scrap yard, being dismantled.

I know its difficult to believe but take it from me,
THE GOOD TIMES WILL NEVER RETURN

[pigbreath]

2. If you don't admit that you are in already, then they will put you forward. Result: CV in twice. They will tell you that that is guaranteed disaster, but I am not sure that I believe it. Actually I'm not sure that they always put your CV in.

I'm pretty much a contracting virgin and was thinking over this subject having seen what is obviously the same position advertised on Jobserve from a number of different agencies.

My view was that the client is outsouring the filtering of unsuitable applications to the agencies - with the intent they can then select only from the most pertinent.

If a client received a CV from a number of agencies would this not be comforting to the client, knowing that a number of professional selectors had selected this client; and therefore they are a less risk/greater opportunity..?

I can see how, from the point of view of an agency, they would not want applications to be made from another agency. I'm not agency though; and I'm not really thinking about their best interests!

[Ivor Bigun]

I'm pretty much a contracting virgin and was thinking over this subject having seen what is obviously the same position advertised on Jobserve from a number of different agencies.

My view was that the client is outsouring the filtering of unsuitable applications to the agencies - with the intent they can then select only from the most pertinent.

If a client received a CV from a number of agencies would this not be comforting to the client, knowing that a number of professional selectors had selected this client; and therefore they are a less risk/greater opportunity..?

I can see how, from the point of view of an agency, they would not want applications to be made from another agency. I'm not agency though; and I'm not really thinking about their best interests!

Any hassles = CV is binned.

Why?

The people who select
A) Don't know you
B) Have lots of others to select from
C) Don't want hassle from agents about who they should pay a commission to

[bullseye]

I thought some of you may be interested in a few stats that sum up my experience of the market over the past few months. A bit of background - I have been contracting in the OSS / CRM / Java / Oracle arena for 10 years and until last October have not spent more than 2 (unplanned) weeks out of contract. My last contract finished September 31st last year. Since then I have applied for well over 100 jobs, mainly through Jobserve but quite a few calls have come from Jobsite. Monster was a waste of time.

Of those applications, roughly 30% resulted in my CV being fowarded to the client, which converted to 14 interviews. 8 of those moved forward to the final decision phase. After final interview, 2 roles were withdrawn due to project or budgetary problems. Just this week, after nearly 7 months, finally an interview converted to a job offer. This job came through an old work colleague who contacted me via Linkedin, and far as I know has not been advertised on the job boards.

I had one interview before I left my contract in September. October and November were washouts, no interviews at all. 5 interviews in December, 1 in January, and then 7 in February and March. So in that sense yes things are picking up I guess.

On rates - I have been on £500+/day since 2001. The highest rate I was put forward for was £450/day and recently roles have been going for around £350/day.

Interviews were split 50/50 for contract and perm roles which roughly correlates with the ratio of contract/perm applications. The job I have now taken is permie, and ignoring any benefits the basic salary is higher than an IR35-clear contract at the rates I have been interviewing for over the last couple of months.

Doom and gloom? Well, certainly it's a market unlike any I've experienced before although I was lucky enough to be on a decent long-term contract during the last downswing. Rates have taken a real battering and certainly for the positions I've been applying for (senior technical architect level) it is not at all clear that there is a fiscal advantage to contracting any more. The job boards are full of nonsense jobs and those that are genuine have a real danger of being pulled at the last moment. Old colleagues and contacts are more important now than ever.

Am I sad to be leaving contracting? Right now, not at all. Whilst I'm not exactly jumping for joy at the thought of permie politics and performance appraisals, they now seem a reasonable price to pay to be free of uncertain payment terms, agency instability (I had two go bust in one year owing me over £30k), tax hassles and the like. Maybe I'll be back, maybe not.

So to all of you out there still looking, or about to be benched - best of luck, it's terrible out there and I'm very glad I'm no longer in the club

Deckster: cheers for the honest assessment.

Even I'm in the same situation as you were. Had a couple of interviews, for which they either hired someone internally or found someone they knew already.

Its been 8 weeks since i'm benched and have had literally no calls over the last week and it does not look hopeful for the next 2 weeks either.

Just hoping something will work out in April once all the budgets are approved.