How Practical / Useful Do you find PRINCE2?

[Peter Loew]

Seriously, all the clients I've worked with so far state that PRINCE2 is important to them, but in practice the only elements I see they use are the doc templates, product descriptions, rough project life-cycle model (processes + components in some form) and reporting.

The don't bother with things like QR sessions, PBP, and don't follow the life-cycle rules (i.e. DP, MSB etc.)

Other than that, in practice I don't think PRINCE2 is incredibly useful for a PM. I've recently been reading a book on PMI and boy THAT is what I call a PM methodology; it's more for the PM rather than the organisation, goes into practical things like EVP, leadership, planning, risk management etc. Whereas PRINCE2 basically says you should do these things and here are the templates and a few high level processes... the end.

To me PRINCE2 seems to be all shell and no soul, whereas things like PMI and APM seem to have 'soul'.

What's your experience with PRINCE2 and do you use / are you certified in any other PM methodology that you find to be much better / more practical to use than PRINCE2?

P

[opc]

PMI (or APM) and Prince II are different things.

Prince II is a methodology that gives you a ready made template for launching, running, governing and closing a project. It tells you what documents to produce when (and what the content is) and how to move through the project lifecycle.

What it doesn't do, or try to do, is teach you how to Project Manage (i.e. the disciplines of planning, control, Earned value, risk management, benefit management etc.).

PMI/APM qualifications should, in my opinion, go hand-in-hand with Prince II (if you organisation wants to operate a Prince II process model). Prince II tells you what to do, PMI/APM tells you how to do it.

[original PM]

PRINCE 2, APM, PMI

Yada yada yada

Basic paperwork to ensure everyone understands their role.

A common goal which everyone understands and is committed to.

A basic gant chart to track timescales and dependancies.

The 2 biggest problems with projects are Money and Politics (same as everything really)

A senior manager who does not like the changes being implemented will always question ROI for the project as a way of slowing things down.

Ultimately if you want to do something do it - it will cost x the return on investment may or may not be able to be measured in purely financial terms as not all projects are based around making money.

So in answer to your question I have worked with many people who have various different qualifications and the best have always been those who understood what they were trying to achieve and how best to get the team to achieve it - not those who could quote from the rule book.

[zara_backdog]

At the end of the day all these methodologies are all guidelines - take from them what you will/require.

[Peter Loew]

Very interesting answers from everyone.

Whilst I agree that money and politics are the two biggest problems facing any project, I still think that the said qualifications are very useful, at least from a personal development and professional point of view.

I am talking more from a personal development perspective.

Given this, I want to get either PMI or APM qualification[s]. I plan to work in the States and Australia in the future but of course in the UK too (where I am from) so I want to study and gain certifications in a body that is internationally recognised.

Does anybody know if there is great difference between the PMBOK and APMBOK texts / PMI and APM, and which would be the better path to follow?

Again I am interested in personal development and an internationally recognised PM organisation / institute in anticipation for looking for work abroad.

I'd be particulary interested to hear if anyone here has pursued either PMI or APM certs or both.

P

[opc]

Don't know if there's any great difference between the two BOKs (I suspect not except to the real BOK geek), but believe PMI to be much more internationally recognised.

I've done APMP (knowledge based) and APM practitioner (practice based) qualifications (and Prince II, as it happens).

The best thing given your future international aspirations would be to follow the PMI route - with PMP being the baseline credential for an experienced Project Manager.

I don't by any means think qualifications are the be-all and end-all, but to be a well-rounded professional it certainly doesn't harm to have the qualifications (which will help you to get jobs) AND the experience/competence (which will help you stay in jobs).

[Peter Loew]

Don't know if there's any great difference between the two BOKs (I suspect not except to the real BOK geek), but believe PMI to be much more internationally recognised.

I've done APMP (knowledge based) and APM practitioner (practice based) qualifications (and Prince II, as it happens).

The best thing given your future international aspirations would be to follow the PMI route - with PMP being the baseline credential for an experienced Project Manager.

I don't by any means think qualifications are the be-all and end-all, but to be a well-rounded professional it certainly doesn't harm to have the qualifications (which will help you to get jobs) AND the experience/competence (which will help you stay in jobs).

Thanks for that advice. It's certainly looking more like the PMI route.

How seasoned were you as a PM when you did the APMP and APM Pract.? Did you feel it tought you skills that were of value to you as a contractor / PM?

P

[rickys99999]

PRINCE2 study

The applicability and usefulness of PRINCE2 to the modern UK project management industry.

As part of my dissertation for the MSc Project Management course at the University of Westminster, I am currently conducting research based upon PRINCE2.

The purpose behind this study is to gather how much value PRINCE2 has within modern project management; it places a special emphasis on the UK industry as the market is already deemed to be in saturation. It establishes how applicable and useful PRINCE2 is, both at an individual and organisational level. In particular, it aims to gain the project management practitioner’s perspective on the subject and present the data in a quantitative and qualitative form.
Personally, when I embarked on the journey of becoming a project manager, I heard a lot of debate on the PRINCE2 qualification and saw that many other individuals like me wished to find out if it was a worthy investment. Hopefully the results of this survey, when published, will help both potential project managers and companies wanting to embed PRINCE2 into their organisation evaluate the investment.

If you wish to participate in this study, you can access the survey at: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/PRINCE2survey

Thank you in advance for your time and please feel free to pass on the link to anybody who might have an interested in the subject.

[Cenobite]

I coined the term 'Document-Driven Development' to describe PRINCE2. Just seems to be a massive a$$ covering exercise which gets in the way of delivering real value.

[cojak]

In case anyone is wondering, I allowed this zombie thread through as I found it intriguing.

NO ONE uses full blown P2 in real life, but I have found the course and method of use and still use PIDs and Product Descriptions in my work.

I find that that good PMs use their own method (which has worked in the past) and common sense to get things done.