Reply to: How Practical / Useful Do you find PRINCE2?

[ProjectManager]

I very much like PRINCE 2, IMHO if you want to become a PM and hit the ground running P2 is all you need.

I have PMP, P2 Practitioner, APM, ITIL + more and of all these I treasure P2 the most.

Of course all the above are just frameworks and/or methodologies and I am yet to see an organization using any of those directly off the shelf, most if not all companies use(abuse) adapted and bespoke PM methodologies.

I personally started as IT Sys Admin, I was then UNIX and DB Techie and then moved into IT Service Management and then became IT PM.

Need to admit that I have had only 2 contracts as PM and 80% of my time is as a permie PM but still I have seen quite a lot and from what I have seen the most successful PMs and Pgr Mgrs do not care much about which methodology is used or "required" by the client, all it counts is on time delivery, again IMHO.

At the present moment I am investing heavily in soft skills such as stress management, emotional intelligence, negotiation, crisis management etc.

I truly believe that the exceptionally good PMs I have seen are all very good in all social aspects of this game, the processes and policies are easy, you can teach a monkey to run a meeting and work with MPPs, PIDs and Risk logs and RACI tables, only an exceptional PM would be able to face and tame a pissed off customer and work with a crippled team and deliver on any given "Death March Project", not many can cope with the stress and all the BS and still remain productive.

[oilyrag]

Hello, I am thinking of shifting towards project management and have started reading about Prince2 and other pm qualifications.

Is there a common path to enter the pm world? Like...where do people usually start from? Project support/project coordinator/... and then?

I'd be interested in hearing from project managers in the forum about their career progressions and timescales. Where did you start from and how long did it take you guys to get to the "£500 per day pm role"

Cheers

FS BI developer for 7 yrs then started in public sector as permy PM, it was a good place to start, there was little to no pressure. Once I'd got my act together, got my certs and established being convincing to both Execs and Techs I moved to contracting. Didn't limit myself to working on the island and got broad industry experience across Europe over the next 12 years. Earning above £500pd is where book knowledge alone will not take you, and that separates the men from the boys.

[oilyrag]

PRINCE2 = How to run a project
PMP= How to be a project manager
agile= How to manage product delivery

They are complimentary. Borrow bits from the above to suit the needs of your project and customer.

[tom26]

project management

I am new to the contracting side of things (so new in fact that I have not actually started one as yet but am busy searching and reading up all I can, with some irons in fires that hopefully will convert in the next few weeks)

I have been a project manager for 14 years now in permanent roles, am now looking for a contract role and where I am (Scotland) this is not straightforward (but I never expected it to be)

Prince2 still seems to appear most often as the required qualification but Agile is not far behind. £500 up here is very rare from what I can see and certainly well above what I am expecting. I have the Prince2 qualifications (along with MSP) but it will be Agile i will go for next

Even with 14 years experience I am not finding it easy to get talking to prospective contracts although I realise that my lack of contracting background will not help here.

In terms of how people get started, from my experience, there is no consistent way in, it is something people come across by showing an interest, they were usually ex techs and having more knowledge than pure project management appears essential also. Personally, I was a trainer of software with an interest in coding and someone thought that this would make me a project manager - is working so far

[MattZani]

Hello, I am thinking of shifting towards project management and have started reading about Prince2 and other pm qualifications.

Is there a common path to enter the pm world? Like...where do people usually start from? Project support/project coordinator/... and then?

I'd be interested in hearing from project managers in the forum about their career progressions and timescales. Where did you start from and how long did it take you guys to get to the "£500 per day pm role"

Cheers

[kaiser78]

Try using PRINCE2 to deliver anything other than a product.

I grimaced as I watched a PRINCE2 PM completely unable to fathom why it didn't work for a infrastructure migration project. He was determined but totally stressed out, but after two weeks of spinning round in circles trying to break down the project into 'products', another PM was assigned. The next one hadn't done that type of project either but ended up throwing out the rule books and using common sense.

Maybe the P2 PM in question was just not a good PM ?

I have delivered infr migration projects using certain elements of P2, rather successfully I hasten to add.

[CheeseSlice]

Try using PRINCE2 to deliver anything other than a product.

I grimaced as I watched a PRINCE2 PM completely unable to fathom why it didn't work for a infrastructure migration project. He was determined but totally stressed out, but after two weeks of spinning round in circles trying to break down the project into 'products', another PM was assigned. The next one hadn't done that type of project either but ended up throwing out the rule books and using common sense.

[kaiser78]

As a fully qualified PRINCE2 practitioner, I can tell you that I use it for the following purposes:

• Listing it as a skill on my CV

I hope that clarifies.

In all seriousness - some of the basic concepts like agreeing (or even having) a business case and setting things like cost and time tolerance are useful. As are having the concept of a configuration librarian - i.e. the PM or BA who maintains the documents. But that's it really - I wouldn't have any friends if I properly used PRINCE2.

I have recently undertaken my 5 yr re-certification - just bought the latest manual, did the exam online from home, got result 1 week later. Nothing to it, although the exam scenario and qs were harder than I expected.

[kaiser78]

Most project management is a massive ass covering exercise.

I think it would be interesting to see how many builders, manufacturers etc. use Prince2. The reality is the core of any organisation that actually builds anything lies with their MRP, stock and resource management systems, not some silly procedural system that ensures reports are written and boxes are ticked at the right time.

Not sure what you mean by this statement - Prince 2 may be process driven if applied to the letter etc, but your sweeping statement above I would not agree with, being an experienced PM myself.

[PerfectStorm]

As a fully qualified PRINCE2 practitioner, I can tell you that I use it for the following purposes:

• Listing it as a skill on my CV

I hope that clarifies.

In all seriousness - some of the basic concepts like agreeing (or even having) a business case and setting things like cost and time tolerance are useful. As are having the concept of a configuration librarian - i.e. the PM or BA who maintains the documents. But that's it really - I wouldn't have any friends if I properly used PRINCE2.

[Peter Loew]

I've got all the certifications kindly paid for years ago when permie employer had bags of cash: PRINCE2, PMI, PMP, APM, MSP blah blah bl**dy blah.

In reality, the only two methodologies any client seem to be interested in these days are:

PINO - Prince In Name Only
AINO - Agile In Name Only

(or in case of TCS: WTFIAPMM - WTF is a PM methodology?)

Everyone likes to say they have a stong methodology, but they actually just want to get the job done without upsetting too many people and not spending too much.

I used to love all this stuff, but now I just get on with delivering the product.

Good point. I think that the methodologies do provide some good ground for the PM though. It's easy for you to say this because you're experienced (especially as a contractor working in different work environments, which is like a PM methodology in itself). Plus you can always walk in there and impress with the way things 'should be' or 'could be' if they hired you. Of course once hired it's all about delivering the product and methodology formalities tend to escape through the nearest window.

[Project Monkey]

I've got all the certifications kindly paid for years ago when permie employer had bags of cash: PRINCE2, PMI, PMP, APM, MSP blah blah bl**dy blah.

In reality, the only two methodologies any client seem to be interested in these days are:

PINO - Prince In Name Only
AINO - Agile In Name Only

(or in case of TCS: WTFIAPMM - WTF is a PM methodology?)

Everyone likes to say they have a stong methodology, but they actually just want to get the job done without upsetting too many people and not spending too much.

I used to love all this stuff, but now I just get on with delivering the product.

[Peter Loew]

And since this thread covers the date range, a question:

From a non-certificate point of view, is it worth learning about the 'new' version of Prince 2, or is it still ok to go back to my 'old' P2 books for reference?

In my opinion, get the new book and refresh using that. I am no longer certified (expired last year), and I haven't updated my certification (nor do I plan to for this release of PRINCE2). But one thing I do plan on doing is refreshing myself on the new book so I'm up to speed. I've done this with MSP as well, even though I am not MSP certified at all.

[cojak]

And since this thread covers the date range, a question:

From a non-certificate point of view, is it worth learning about the 'new' version of Prince 2, or is it still ok to go back to my 'old' P2 books for reference?

[Peter Loew]

The key part about PRINCE2 besides the documentation is management by exception. In reality the confines in which a project manager can work with on a project (time, cost & scope) are not usually well defined so in my experience it's down the to the project managers discretion if they can manage it internally or escalate it to the project board/senior stakeholders.

I'm about to do my practitioner reaccreditation and the documentation terminology is still relevant in todays world (e.g. understanding what should be in place for a project initiation document - PID) however the processes around how day to day a project is managed varies greatly with each PM and the organisations they work in. As Cojak mentioned it's about a PM using what in their experience works best with the type of project they are managing and the organisations they are working with to deliver that project is what makes a good PM - not how closely they follow PRINCE2.

Absolutely, but PRINCE2 is supposed to be tailored for this reason. Since I started this thread, 5 years ago, I can say that I have never used PRINCE2 the way it's described in the book - has anyone. But I have taken away the essentials and blended them into my practical day to day project management (sometimes with different terminology to suit my client). Same goes for Scrum processes. Know what the ideal is, then adapt to it as much as the organisation will allow.