What happens if...

[P1mpAndPr0ud]

Absolutely agree with this. Why should I give an agent the opportunity to abuse my good faith in giving away free information without knowing if the job that they are applying for actually exists.



I still wouldn't give out references until after I have attended an interview, unless I have an existing good relationship with the agent / agency, I would wait until after the interview until I give out references. I don't want to give the agent / agency the incentive of lying to me in order to get more leads only to cancel the interview.

Nail. Hit. Head.

References simply aren't necessary in order to get a CV in front of the client. I would hope that any candidate I put forward would provide me with professional references on reciept of an offer of employment, but we really, really don't need them until then.

I don't need to take references at the outset, that's why I don't ask for them. I trust my own industrial and technical knowledge enough to use it to make a judgement call when in conversation with the candidate.

I also spend a long time qualifying requirements - sometimes 20 or 30 minutes all told in a single conversation with the client. This is why I don't need references - I know everything that I need to know from the client and expect no surprises.

[pmeswani]

Then you won't be getting a role through me at any point soon.

Perhaps before discounting the reference issue, you should try thinking around it - If you don't trust the agent, offer to set up a conference call with one of your referee's - tell them you want to listen in, and want a copy of the reference afterwards. Then assuming that the agent is doing all he or she says they are, then, and only then release the other one.

With over 1000 agencies in the country... if all of them did the above, my referees would not be happy and would probably distance themselves from me. In any case, all my recent referees are only allowed to confirmed that I worked for them during certain dates in order to ensure that they won't get sued.

You have all clearly been burned by agents - some of whom clearly lurk here - either that or you all work at the low end of the market, where sharks are more prevalent - This is all music to my ears, in fact it's my favourite objection....but it shouldn't be like this.

I haven't been burnt. Just had the experience to know that when agents ask for referees, they have only one thing in mind.... more leads.

Dodgy:
As for abusing me for spending 40 mins on the phone to my client - give me the information up front, and I'll find you the right person first time - don't afford me the time and I end up shooting in the dark like every other cowboy out there, hoping to make a placement. People have described our process as being like going 10 rounds with Mike Tyson, but with a reward at the end of it, which allows them to get on with the rest of thier day, knowing that I'll deliver.

The above also allows me to be able to give an in-depth explanation as to what is required to the contractor - not just skills, but culture, an idea of when interviews will be, when decisions will be, and so on and so forth....what have you got? A piece of paper from a HR doris who doesn't have a clue how to qualify precise needs, and will present a different picture to the one your end client is looking for.

If you're not building a clear picture of what you are looking for you are destined to remain HR's monkey, which they'll lead around in circles - no control over your business, no growth prospects, and more than a high chance of failure to deliver accurately. Feel free to explain how you can justify a 20% margin by firing a few CV's which MIGHT be right, in, when compared to the same margin for:

Understanding the role
Qualifying the candidate
Referencing X2
Providing in depth recommendations as to why the person is right.
As well as presenting a professional image of the client because you understand EXACTLY what the client wants to see.

Good luck in the downturn........

I'm guessing that you don't have a clear picture of how busy Managers are. Do you honestly think that they would want to spend 40 minutes (or however long) to have a discussion with agencies about candidates? The environments I have worked in, you would find that the managers would be keen to finish the conversation after about 3 or 4 minutes.

[DodgyAgent]

I will set aside the bullsh*t that implies that all your clients use you exclusively for whatever jobs they have; that you are the "gatekeeper" of their requirements and that you decide who goes forward and who does not.

Which is why my candidates stand out - not only do I have a good understanding of what the contractor claims he does - I also know how he does it, why he does it like that, what success he's seen, what he's learned and backed that up - I often have competition - but I get it right first time, so my clients don't end up sifting 30 CV's to get the match - I've done that already - which is why I can charge a 20% margin, and you get done for 10-15% - I've put the leg work in.[/I]

If you are so able to supply the client with any skill that he/she might want how on earth can you possibly have networked and got to know the vast amount of contractors who would be:

1. Technically/business skilled
2. Available at the right time
3. Live in close enough proximity

I am in a niche market - and no - I can't provide everything - hence I specialise

That would be necessary to cover the vast spectrum of skills that a cross section of clients would want at any one time unless you are operating in a highly niche market? Spot on - but thats not the reason - I cover projects and associated disciplines

You have not told us either what you ask of references?
briefly (I have work to do) I ask what the contractor was engaged for - what they did - what they delivered - what that meant - how they went about it - Soft skills - Method - challenges - how they overcame them, and a range of other questions.

If a contractor has worked on one site for the past 4 years how do you obtain a reference You have to apply a level of pragmatism - sometimes it's not possible to get a reference - but there are always other ways - managers who have left, peers who have left, verbal off the record reviews - anything to make sure that I'm not going to get stiffed 3 weeks later.

(let alone know who is) if the guy is still working and you calling his boss may compromise his position? I'd never compromise the position of anyone - that's inappropriate and unprofessional - as I say there are ways around it - alternatively you meet the person, look them straight in the eye and use a degree of gut feeling before considering putting them forwards. Bear in mind, I aim for 2 placements a month, so logistics are far easier at this volume, than at the "bums on seats" level.

P.S. the use of the word "he" is not meant to be sexist, it's simply the way it was written previously, so i've kept it uniform (and I'm too lazy to write he/she each time!).

A bullshi*ter if ever there was one. If you are really that good you wouldnt be on this site boasting.

[TykeMerc]

A bullshi*ter if ever there was one. If you are really that good you wouldnt be on this site boasting.

Indeed, my bullsh*t detector has been giving a positive response too.

I won't give out referee names or contact details prior to an offer as I value my referees and won't have them being hassled by Agents punting for work.

[pmeswani]

If you are really that good you wouldnt be on this site boasting.

What are you saying about us lot?

(Sorry for the cutting out the first part of the sentence. Just wanted to home in on this phrase). If he is that good, he should be boasting about it on here so us lot can take advantage of his good looks and extreme charm offensive. However, his method is, as far as I am concerned, a bit flawed.

[DodgyAgent]

What are you saying about us lot?

(Sorry for the cutting out the first part of the sentence. Just wanted to home in on this phrase). If he is that good, he should be boasting about it on here so us lot can take advantage of his good looks and extreme charm offensive. However, his method is, as far as I am concerned, a bit flawed.

We are not pretending to be setting the world on fire are we?

[The Agents View]

What are you saying about us lot?

(Sorry for the cutting out the first part of the sentence. Just wanted to home in on this phrase). If he is that good, he should be boasting about it on here so us lot can take advantage of his good looks and extreme charm offensive. However, his method is, as far as I am concerned, a bit flawed.

Someone has to stick up for the "agents" view - (I don't ever call myself an agent by the way, I'm a provider of interim resource or a Consultant (never use the senior tag - sounds way too self inflated).

Sadly - my good looks have proved illusive for a good few years, hence I chose a job which is predominantely telephone based - if I'm face to face, I have to use wit to impress anybody - my looks are sadly not inkeeping with the pink tie, tons of hair gel, pretty boy stereotype.

[DodgyAgent]

[QUOTE=The (I don't ever call myself an agent by the way, I'm a provider of interim resource or a Consultant (never use the senior tag - sounds way too self inflated).

.[/QUOTE]

No wonder you take 40 minutes

[P1mpAndPr0ud]

No wonder you take 40 minutes

[pmeswani]

We are not pretending to be setting the world on fire are we?

What makes you think and say that?