What happens if...

[expat]

It's interesting to see the varied replies when it comes to this.

I am leaning on the side of Turion, it seems like another agent scare tactic. From our point of view, we want the client to see our CVs, we want to win the piece of work; and we understandably will do everything we can to get the work. We all know how dodgy and docile agents can be, and so to increase the chances of our CVs getting across it seems sensible for us to use at least one agency for this purpose.

Has anybody had any experience where they have lost the role altogether simply because they were repped by more than one agency?

P

I'm sure that in practice some clients will bin your CV rather than risk hassle. Equally, some clients will pick the wrong candidate, you can't save them from their mistakes . The choice is theirs. But many clients will be looking for the best candidate, and if that's you by a long way, you are much more important to the client than any agent is.

I work through fewer agents than I used to; or to be specific, I try to identify agents that I am happy to work with, who are likely to have most of the roles going, and I don't much bother with others. In my case that's not hard (depends on your field perhaps): I've only had one contract in the last five years from somebody I didn't already know.

I like Ardesco's open strategy: if you really prefer the 2nd agent, be open with them and they will check it out.

AFAIK I have never lost a role simply because I was put forward by 2 agencies. I have lost a role because one agency put me forward at a rate about half what I was willing to work for, without asking me first. The client wanted me, but only at that rate! Another time I called it off myself because I had been put forward by one agency and rejected by the client for lack of right experience; then put forward to the same client by a different agency, and accepted! I feared that I might have been misrepresented by the 2nd agency, with an inflated CV. I was young then, now I'd just ask the client to show me it and discuss it in detail: no shame on me if I don't fit.

[The Agents View]

Long time lurker, first time poster here - be gentle.

I can't just sit back and let this thread continue - there's way too much inaccurate information included thus far!

There are several issues to being submitted twice. Representation is often secured through the terms of business of the company, and the relationship the recruiter has with the client.

If....

.....you've been represented by an agency, and a second agency puts you forwards, then you are the one who looks unprofessional - your relationship with your "pimp" (as you all seem to call us) should be strong enough for them to trust you enough to reveal the client name - if it's not, why are you even considering going for a role with them?? - if you've been represented to that client already, you waste the time of the agent, the time of the client, and almost certainly scupper your chances of getting the role. You also damage the relationship with the consultant, who will see you as a waste of time - there are plenty of contractors on the market right now - they'll just move on to the next one.

.....you're not told the name of the company - why are you going for the role? Any consultant worth his salt, will build relations with you, check you out, reference you, and understand you in enough detail to present reasoned argument as to why you should be taken on for the role - they will also TELL YOU who the role is with - they don't want your name tarnished with that of a competitor. It also makes you look desperate if you are submitted twice. References ARE NOT a "fishing tool" when there's a genuine role - maybe in IT, but certainly not in my sector - I want to CONFIRM that you can deliver what you say you can - I will always ask how the horizion looks for the referee, but never ask directly "got any roles" - that's just unprofessional - if they sight one of their key challenges as "cant get enough contractors" (unlikely) then I might give them my service offering, but its never a "proactive tool".

.......you get represented twice, the bun fight is often something which turns off the client - and it is NEVER the professional consultancy who gets the deal - it's ALWAYS the one who worked quick, dirty and underhand. I will ONLY send a CV when I have two in depth references to back up my thoughts of the candidate - that takes alot more time, and sometimes opens us up to be blown out by the client - however I'd far rather do that and lose the odd deal, than put someone on site who doesn't do "what they say on the tin".....

Try working WITH your agencies a little more - give them roles, leads, and make friends with them - if you find a decent one, BUILD A RELATIONSHIP with them - it leads to less surprises, less monkies picking up money for providing the CV Sausage factory model, and ultimately means they'll be looking out for you when you need them most.

Cheers
TAV

[Turion]

Long time lurker, first time poster here - be gentle.
.......
I can't just sit back and let this thread continue - there's way too much inaccurate information included thus far!

No there is not. I've been in the contractor market successfully for 10+ years and had 20+ different projects in that time. I know what happens, and what you say to total clap trap. I won't be 'building relationships' anytime soon with you so go back to lurking where you belong.

[WindyAnna]

My experience as a hiring manager says ....

Terms with agency are usually written so that the one who submits first gets to represent. HR/Purchasing are usually tight on this.

The candidate has to be REALLY good for me to want the hassle of 2 agencies bickering and using whatever tactics they think appropriate!

Windy

[The Agents View]

No there is not. I've been in the contractor market successfully for 10+ years and had 20+ different projects in that time. I know what happens, and what you say to total clap trap. I won't be 'building relationships' anytime soon with you so go back to lurking where you belong.

10+ years huh? 20 different projects? thats one every 6 months - make what you will of that.

If you're not prepared to build relationships, then you will quickly find yourself out in the cold. You may not like it, you may not want to, but if you limit yourself to your aggressive attitude towards agencies, and rely soley on your "contacts" you'll quickly find yourself out in the cold - regardless of what you say, you do one thing, we do another - we provide your "marketing and sales" department, and lets be honest, you'll never be as good at that as we are......

Fyi - of the 9 placements I've made in the last 3 months, only 1 of them was someone I didn't have a long term relationship with before. But if you're happy with that 1/9 chance, good for you - I just hope you've invested in a heated bench for the winter.

TAV

[Turion]

My experience as a hiring manager says ....

Terms with agency are usually written so that the one who submits first gets to represent. HR/Purchasing are usually tight on this.

The candidate has to be REALLY good for me to want the hassle of 2 agencies bickering and using whatever tactics they think appropriate!

Windy

OK, but what if a candidates CV has not even been submitted. Does he have a chance? - he's got no chance. This is the whole point we are talking. Many agents try to eliminate competion by ringing round as many available candidates as possible, saying they are submitting the CV, and they don't. In the case of 2 CVs, clients will choose the first PSL submission or possibly the cheapest quote.

[NotAllThere]

Long time lurker, first time poster here - be gentle.

I can't just sit back and let this thread continue - there's way too much inaccurate information included thus far!

blah blah blah

..., less monkies picking up money for providing the CV Sausage factory model, and ultimately means they'll be looking out for you when you need them most.

Cheers
TAV

How it all works depends totally on the sector and the individual client. In my sector, if I'm hiring, I want the best person. I deal with the CV that gets to me first. ( Not submitted first, not given to my manager first, not given to the purchasing departement first ).

When I looking for a contract, I often don't find out the client, until I'm offered an interview. And I never give references.

[The Agents View]

OK, but what if a candidates CV has not even been submitted. Does he have a chance? - he's got no chance. This is the whole point we are talking. Many agents try to eliminate competion by ringing round as many available candidates as possible, saying they are submitting the CV, and they don't. In the case of 2 CVs, clients will choose the first PSL submission or possibly the cheapest quote.

If you suspect this, the easiest way to eliminate it is to ask for either a written confirmation that you've been submitted, or even ask for a copy of the submission - you can then work out which agents are credible. Further to this, a lack of genuine, honest, credible feedback or contact is a dead giveaway - I'd always give anyone I had committed feedback to the time to either explain what the client has said, offer an interview, or set out why that feedback is not forthcoming (clients can be illusive when they want to be!)

TAV

[expat]

If
.....you're not told the name of the company - why are you going for the role? Any consultant worth his salt, will build relations with you, check you out, reference you, and understand you in enough detail to present reasoned argument as to why you should be taken on for the role - they will also TELL YOU who the role is with - they don't want your name tarnished with that of a competitor. It also makes you look desperate if you are submitted twice. References ARE NOT a "fishing tool" when there's a genuine role - maybe in IT, but certainly not in my sector - I want to CONFIRM that you can deliver what you say you can - I will always ask how the horizion looks for the referee, but never ask directly "got any roles" - that's just unprofessional - if they sight one of their key challenges as "cant get enough contractors" (unlikely) then I might give them my service offering, but its never a "proactive tool".

I like the sound of that. Where do I sign up for an agent like that?

WindyAnna, what do you think of the problem of a contractor being told that he has been put forward when he hasn't? I suppose as a hiring manager this will never actually present itself as a problem to you, but it does happen. I'd like to say that the answer is to build relationships with agents you trust, but (in all seriousness, without gratuitous agent-slagging) I don't see how to do that.

For example, I had an agency do that to me a few years ago, and this is the agency that I have worked with most. I can't swear that they didn't put me forward for the role, maybe their contacts were just crap, but I suspect the problem was that they had a lower-paying role in mind for me. Or a lower-billing guy for that role. But then an agency I didn't know came up with this role (I didn't know it was the same) and got me in rapidly because the need was urgent, I fit exactly, and I was ready. Anyway, when the first agency, who were still "trying to clarify the requirement" heard I was going in there, they went into panic mode, trying to claim first dibs, offering to get a higher rate that same day etc (they had spoken of a substantially lower rate).

More fool me for trusting them in the first place? But they are among the best I have found.

[Peter Loew]

This is the reason I don't trust the particular agent. He asked me for all my personal info to be sent to him, including two references, and when I asked why, he told me explicitly that without this the client will not look at my CV. See this thread: http://forums.contractoruk.com/713053-post1.html

Then another agency (one with a better work ethic in my experience) contacted me about the same role. They stated that this info is required ONLY after securing an offer and that they would not ask it of me before then, and they want to put my CV forward.

I was blatantly lied to by Agency #1, and I have absolutely no trust that my CV has gone forward. So I have gone with Agency #2 instead.

P