Professional day - How many hours?

[northernladuk]

So... to wrestle this back a bit...

If a contract states "Professional Working Day" then it is fair to say your expectation is an 8-hour day (or there abouts) but not necessarily with a pre-defined start time. You might have to start at 08:00, you might have to start at 09:00, maybe at 10:00 but the PWD, in your professional opinions, means roughly an 8 hour day, and they may ask you to put some extra in to finish the job as long as it is reasonable, yes?

To be more specific about the 19 hour day:
Left home at 05:00 via taxi to airport
Flew to country where needed (only 90 minute flight or there abouts)
Straight to office, started sorting equipment etc.
Bit of customer care whilst EU handed in machines
Lots of hanging around waiting on the US to do some back-end bits and bobs
Started hands-on work at roughly 21:00 and worked until midnight ish

Similar happened this Friday & Saturday in London (we shift offices each week) but I said I wasn't going to stay for another 12+ hour day. Pointed out PWD doesn't say "evening" or "night" anywhere in it. They were happy for me to go (still got the job done) but I think they would have had us doing anything and everything whilst we were there just because they could. I think I'm learning (quickly) that your hours are in your hands and it is fair to say "I'm going now" in a nice, professional manner. Of course once your PWD has been finished.

Now this is interesting. I've worked in a global company that involved a lot of travel to the EU and much further beyond and their definition of a PWD is completely different to that of a single office based one. At the latter a trip to London or something of a couple of hours was expected to be swallowed from time to time. The global one expected air travel to also be swallowed but obviously it was much longer. A trip to Brussels for them was the same as a trip to London for the other company. It's the culture of the client. The only flexibility they had was if the flights were over 3 or 4 hours, in which case you got dispensation to travel the night before and in business class. It is what it is and they are paying so sometimes you have to adjust and what you think is a PWD isn't always right.

The term PWD is slightly warped and isn't what you think it is, it's what the client thinks. It's them that is paying for the PWD at the end of the day. It might seem unfair to you but to everyone else there it's the nature of the beast so there is no set time for 'PWD' and I'd argue it's most definitely not roughly 8 hours a day.

All that said I don't know why I get in to the PWD discussions. I'm the type that (arguably a bit stupid to some people) do what's needs to be done and 3/6 months later look back, say that was a tough gig and count good money I made. I'm happy and comfortably well off so life is good. We run in to these things from time to time and as contractors we have the flexibility to do something about it. If you don't like it then bail?

If so then giving 5 hours of your life away seems very charitable...

I spend more than that a month <insert winking smiley>. Putting it behind you while on a lucrative gig isn't going to be too hard surely? Look at the bigger picture. It's short term, the next gig will be different and think of the money. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger and all that.

Normal caveat about them expecting it every week and it running in to many 10's of hours is starting to take the piss but then as a contractor you have an option to do something about it.

[MrMarkyMark]

I dispute that as the flights and leaving airport were stipulated by the company.

Another rookie mistake, the airport should be convenient for you. Something along the lines of, "I always use London City for business travel, as it is so reliable" usually works, especially if you say you won't go otherwise

[WTFH]

I dispute that as the flights and leaving airport were stipulated by the company. If I were being "fair" then I could say "it normally takes me x-amount of time to get to the London based office ergo I will subtract that from the total time I'm with you" (although I think they'd look at me funny for using the 'ergo').

We arrived in the country where we were working at 09:00 (or there abouts) and in the office an hour later. So are you saying that day started at 10:00? If so then giving 5 hours of your life away seems very charitable...

You can dispute it all you want. The client is paying you to work for them. Where you choose to live is not their problem. Unless you have agreed that travel time is included in your rate, then it is not.
Using your logic, you could turn round and say that when you are staying away from home you are working for them 24 hours a day.

In past gigs I have left home at 3am on a Monday to drive to a client site. They are paying you to work, not to travel.
In my current and last gig, they stipulated that travel should be done (where possible) within normal hours, so you shouldn't have to leave home before 6.30am and you should be home by 7pm. There are exceptions, but it is something agreed beforehand.

[adubya]

I turn up when I want (within reason ), happens that this is before 8am. If times are quiet then I'll be off home 17:00 ish, if it's hands to the pumps then it will be (much) later. Lunch == grab a sarnie and eat at desk so minimal time.

So average day is 9hrs. Then there's 3hrs of travelling (in total) per day. Tonight was longer as my train broke down so took 2hrs to get home. But that's not my client's problem, it's mine.

[Old Greg]

I arrive between 8 and 9 and leave between 430 and 530. I take 30 to 90 minutes for lunch away from my desk.

[kevpuk]

I generally make it in around 9am (read: not before 9am, usually closer to 9.30am), although - ironically - on Monday's I tend to get from sometime between 8.30am when I drive up from home.
As for leaving, this is normally around 6-6.30pm, but through choice - current Client location means staying away in the week, so not in a hurry to get out (gym!).......and each day 30-60mins away from desk for lunch.
Client is more than happy with this approach - been onsite for >2yrs! - and I always WFH on Fridays, putting in a shorter day

[LondonManc]

When I'm staying away, I aim to leave at 1pm on a Friday and put in as many hours as I want in the week to make up for that. If someone needs to stay late at project implementation time, I may as well do it if the other guy has a home to go to. It's part of being a human being as much as being a contractor.

Never set a precedent for your working hours; simply deliver what you've been ask to deliver in the time available. Accept that you'll have to work late occasionally but be happy that it'll be far less often than if you were a perm. Not done me much harm so far

[captcavey]

Update

Having spoken to the contract manager and expressed how the contract was worded differently when it came to the signing of the contract to that which was talked about we now have Thursday's off in lieu. Goes to show that, although a contract is signed, you can still negotiate to a degree. Having said that I have been churning the work out for them, which I'm delighted to do as I enjoy the project and they are hiring me for that project. I pointed out that Thursdays were as much use to them regarding me as a chocolate teapot. The manager had been asking the other IT staff to find us stuff to do as we were simply keeping dust off of seats. Sensibility has won through and next time I sign a contract I will be reading it thoroughly even if time is a constraint!

Thank you all for your input and advice. *closes thread for another decade or so*

[Elliegirl]

from NLUK:

I'm the type that (arguably a bit stupid to some people) do what's needs to be done and 3/6 months later look back, say that was a tough gig and count good money I made. I'm happy and comfortably well off so life is good. We run in to these things from time to time and as contractors we have the flexibility to do something about it.

----

I like this a lot. My personal approach is to put in as many hours as it takes to do to the job to a high standard. I look at the money I earned before becoming a contractor, think of the people I've been able to help since, the quality of life I have, thank God for it all and get on with the work.

[zonkkk]

I am in what I call a 'strange' situation. I have agreed a daily rate after client confirmed that normal working hours are 8:30-16:30 (with 30 min lunch break), which makes the working week 37.5h.
However the agency have written in the contract that the normal working week is 40h.

Are they trying to pull a fast one on me and when the time-sheets say 7.5/day would only pay me pro-rata?
I have not signed the contract yet and didn't have a chance to speak to them - got it late on Friday.