Which umbrella - OrangeGenie vs Parasol

[TheBigYinJames]

????
An accountant is far cheeper than a brolly.
So you have just proved his point.

I doubt it.

[TheBigYinJames]

Let me put it this way. I already have a job. Running a Ltd company is a second job that I have no interest in doing. Also, it's a 2nd job that no matter how you argue, takes up some of your personal time (since your full time work takes up your normal working day) and places certain legal and financial responsibilities on you. So multiplied by your daily rate, this is work you are not getting paid for, a real pounds and pence figure.

And furthermore, it's a 2nd job that pays very little. I get about 70% of my gross through my brolly. Even if you can argue that running through a Ltd can get you 80%, that means you're doing that 2nd job for 10%, in real terms not much more than £150 a week after tax. I spend more than that on takeaways. It ain't worth it*



*to me, it might be to you, so good luck to you. But that doesn't make me stupid and you clever. It just means that an extra £150 for which you have to do your 2nd job matters more to you than it does to me.

[DaveB]

I doubt it.

I pay my accountant £1200 a year all in ( CT, SA returns, VAT calculations etc etc ) and they are one of the more expensive ones. If you are paying your Brolly less than that you are doing well. On top of that operating through a Brolly you are paying full whack on PAYE and NI.

By your figures I am making £600 a month for 20 mins work, or £1800 per hour which is certainly a better rate than I get from the client!

[TheBigYinJames]

I pay my accountant £1200 a year all in ( CT, SA returns, VAT calculations etc etc ) and they are one of the more expensive ones. If you are paying your Brolly less than that you are doing well. On top of that operating through a Brolly you are paying full whack on PAYE and NI.

£60 per invoice, usually 10 of those a year.

[original PM]

I pay my accountant £1200 a year all in ( CT, SA returns, VAT calculations etc etc ) and they are one of the more expensive ones. If you are paying your Brolly less than that you are doing well. On top of that operating through a Brolly you are paying full whack on PAYE and NI.

By your figures I am making £600 a month for 20 mins work, or £1800 per hour which is certainly a better rate than I get from the client!

And your yearly insurance costs are?

What was the initial set up cost of your business?

Do you also need other business items such as letter heads, business cards? if so what is the cost of these each year?

How much does your business bank account cost you each year?

Please advise as I have been wanting to know the answers to these questions for years!

[malvolio]

And your yearly insurance costs are? £198 plus PCG membership of £220

What was the initial set up cost of your business? £0

Do you also need other business items such as letter heads, business cards? if so what is the cost of these each year? £120 over the last three years, mainly becuase I moved house and had to get some reprints.

How much does your business bank account cost you each year? £0 - in fact I make a slight profit

Please advise as I have been wanting to know the answers to these questions for years. Clearly.

[DaveB]

And your yearly insurance costs are?

What was the initial set up cost of your business?

Do you also need other business items such as letter heads, business cards? if so what is the cost of these each year?

How much does your business bank account cost you each year?

Please advise as I have been wanting to know the answers to these questions for years!

Insurance is around £200 pa for PI/PL/EL

Initial set up was £150 two years ago.

Spent £80 on a stationary 2 years ago and havn't run out yet. Got at least 12 months worth left.

Business banking is free, infact the Co. makes a small profit from the interest earned on the balance.

So all in you could say it costs the co. £376 a year over 3 years. Allowing for %20 CT relief the effective cost to the business is £301 pa.

Ignoring the one off costs it's £200 pa or £160 pa allowing for CT relief.

[Torran]

Ltd

I had one, I found it a pain to do, I didn't do it right. The VAT man came round for a chat. I stopped doing it

tbh I move around the same client and have done for the last 4/5 years. Umbrella is the safest way for me. Costs me less than £1k a year. Happy enough for the moment.

[Sausage Surprise]

No I don't. I pay an expert accountant to do that for me. I just have to make sure the numbers line up which, since I take care to be accurate and cross check spreadsheet to bank accounts to expenses tracking workbook, they always do. GIGO avoidance, it's called.

Five times a year I sign a form and write a cheque. It's hardly onerous. You're giving away several thousands a year unnecessarily for the sake of a quiet life. I find that incomprehensible myself, but to each their own.

Ditto mate....I just don't get TBYJ's smugness when he's throwing away money. Then again I've got 4 permietractors sitting around me with the same mindset as him.

[TheBigYinJames]

Ditto mate....I just don't get TBYJ's smugness when he's throwing away money. Then again I've got 4 permietractors sitting around me with the same mindset as him.

It's pure self-defence, not smugness.

I'm sorry if it comes across as smug, I'm just defending my personal decision not to run a Ltd against smug jibes from operators of Ltds that I'm being foolish for operating that way. I take an arguably small hit in the pocket for an arguably large chunk of hassle out of my hands. That's a price I am happy to pay. If you're not, that's great, I'm happy for you.

However, when advising new entrants to the field, I believe it's useful to present the cases for and against Ltds and Umbrellas, and not let Malvolio and others railroad newcomers into the idea that there is only one right way to do it, and that's Ltd. It's unfair and misleading.

I apologise if this upsets anyone's personal agenda, but this is an open forum is it not?