Which umbrella - OrangeGenie vs Parasol

[Sausage Surprise]

It depends what your priorities are, I've been contracting for 15 years, both as a Ltd and with a brolly, and my priorities these days with a growing family is low risk and no-hassle, which makes a brolly the best option for me. I'm not maximising my income from contracting, but that's not as important for me as it is for single young blokes with something to prove until they lose their virginity.

Self Defence or Smug.....let the nation decide

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Now boys play nicely

I think all BYJ is saying is that he uses a brolly for convenience as this is his main concern over, say, financial return. For a career contractor, working outside IR35 it makes perfect sense to have a Ltd Co.; for someone new to contracting and inside IR35 a brolly is just as sensible an option.

It really depends what your preferences are - we have contractors using CU that are outside IR35 (and yes they do know) and earning considerable daily rates - they do so because they perceive running a Ltd Co as a hassle - whether it is or not is down to personal opinion but, at the end of the day, it works for them.

[DaveB]

It's pure self-defence, not smugness.

I'm sorry if it comes across as smug, I'm just defending my personal decision not to run a Ltd against smug jibes from operators of Ltds that I'm being foolish for operating that way. I take an arguably small hit in the pocket for an arguably large chunk of hassle out of my hands. That's a price I am happy to pay. If you're not, that's great, I'm happy for you.

However, when advising new entrants to the field, I believe it's useful to present the cases for and against Ltds and Umbrellas, and not let Malvolio and others railroad newcomers into the idea that there is only one right way to do it, and that's Ltd. It's unfair and misleading.

I apologise if this upsets anyone's personal agenda, but this is an open forum is it not?

It is indeed and you are entitled to operate as you see fit.

It isnt smugness that makes us recommend running a ltd so strongly though. Financially it is simply a better way to operate. Allowing for all expenses incurred including accountans fee's, insurances etc I was circa £3500 better off running a ltd last year than I would have been through a brolly, for the sake of 1 days effort spread over 12 months. Thats £3500 for one day's work. It might, as you said earlier, be a 2nd job but it is certainly not an onerous one and it definately pays well!

With changes on the horizon for Brollys as well Ltd really is going to be the best way to do business.

[Sausage Surprise]

It is indeed and you are entitled to operate as you see fit.

It isnt smugness that makes us recommend running a ltd so strongly though. Financially it is simply a better way to operate. Allowing for all expenses incurred including accountans fee's, insurances etc I was circa £3500 better off running a ltd last year than I would have been through a brolly, for the sake of 1 days effort spread over 12 months. Thats £3500 for one day's work. It might, as you said earlier, be a 2nd job but it is certainly not an onerous one and it definately pays well!

With changes on the horizon for Brollys as well Ltd really is going to be the best way to do business.

Don't forget the Flat Rate VAT as well.

[original PM]

I have to agree to an extent with TBYJ.

Not everyone is so motivated by money - if the money you earns supports the lifestyle you wish to lead why would you chase around for more when it impacts on the lifestyle you lead - you see because then you would not be leading the lifestyle you want.

So it is like work life balance really.

I have to also say some people who run their own LTD's do run around trying to be the big 'I am' showing off their business cards with company director on, talking in loud voices on mobile phones and generally emulating an 80's stock broker.

There is also probably an argument that to be really succesful in business you do only see things in terms of ££££££££ - some of us work that way - some of us value more than just material goods.

I am a contractor (in that I am working on a fixed term contract) but actually get paid directly by the client as PAYE - what a muppet you may say - true but it means I get 10% discount in all of their outlets which saves me about £1500-£2000 per year.

I have no great desire to remain a contractor but if/when I do move I will again weigh up my options and choose a different payment method if it suits.

[TheBigYinJames]

Self Defence or Smug.....let the nation decide

Nah that was just cheek

[The Lone Gunman]

£60 per invoice, usually 10 of those a year.

How do you get away with so little?
I was under the impression that most brollies charge betwee 3.5% and 5% of the invoiced amount.

[DaveB]

I have to agree to an extent with TBYJ.

Not everyone is so motivated by money - if the money you earns supports the lifestyle you wish to lead why would you chase around for more when it impacts on the lifestyle you lead - you see because then you would not be leading the lifestyle you want.

So it is like work life balance really.

Except that it doesnt impact on my lifestyle. It takes 20 minutes a month, usually on a Sunday morning when I have nothing else to do. If I do have somthing else to do it gets done at another time. My work life balance is excellent because I am a contractor, not because I operate through a brolly or not.

I have to also say some people who run their own LTD's do run around trying to be the big 'I am' showing off their business cards with company director on, talking in loud voices on mobile phones and generally emulating an 80's stock broker.

As do a large number of permies who think being a VP or a Partner in a large consultancy or some other corporate behemoth makes them better than every one else. I see more flashing of business cards and shouting on mobiles from permies than from contractors.

There is also probably an argument that to be really succesful in business you do only see things in terms of ££££££££ - some of us work that way - some of us value more than just material goods.

True enough, but answer this. If you were offered £3500 to do simple paper work for one day a year, at a time of your choosing, would you turn it down?

I am a contractor (in that I am working on a fixed term contract) but actually get paid directly by the client as PAYE - what a muppet you may say - true but it means I get 10% discount in all of their outlets which saves me about £1500-£2000 per year.

Sorry, but you are not a contractor there, you are a permie who already knows when he is going to be made redundant.

I have no great desire to remain a contractor but if/when I do move I will again weigh up my options and choose a different payment method if it suits.

And that is your choice, of course. That does not preclude the rest of us offering advice when it is asked for and imho the best advice is to run a ltd co. rather than operate through a brolly.

[original PM]

Sorry, but you are not a contractor there, you are a permie who already knows when he is going to be made redundant.

Not strictly true

Come and go pretty much as I please.

Have to deliver set projects within timescales and not simply be at my desk for a set amount of time each day.

Do not have to report to anyone other than on status of projects

Get paid a daily rate

Do not have appraisals and other employee related stuff

To be honest I do keep thinking of setting up a LTD my father in law is an accountant and can do all that for me pretty much for bobbins - he would also do a lot of the other paperwork other accountants would not.

When I think about that I am probably really dumb!

[TheBigYinJames]

How do you get away with so little?
I was under the impression that most brollies charge betwee 3.5% and 5% of the invoiced amount.

I don't know about other brollies, but I'm on a fixed amount per invoice.