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Agency propaganda on CUK Home page?!

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    Agency propaganda on CUK Home page?!

    The propaganda below was on the home page of CUK. The way it reads, it seems to be putting this one-sided view of things as the "way it is" on the subject. It has a very obvious agency bias. Anyone who has been a contractor for a while will be aware that, while agencies do exist that work to a fixed % (and these are therefore fairly straightforward to deal with), for every one of these you encounter you will meet a bunch of others who are simply playing you and the client off against each other and pocketing as high a % as they can get away with.

    Not maintaining a fair balance and mentioning this side of things in a front page article on the subject just stinks. It makes me wonder if a palm is being greased?

    ================ propaganda starts ==================
    Contractors’ Questions: How much do agents take?

    Contractor’s Question :Is there a rule of thumb for the margin a recruitment agent makes on your contract?

    I am in my first contract (IT Project Management) and have worked out that the agent that placed me is taking 25% of the daily rate the company is paying for my services. Is that pretty average or outrageous? What sort of margin is usual or does it vary widely? And does an agent increase their rate when contractors are squeezed or do clients have a say?


    Answer, by a City recruiter, supplying financial and IT project consultants:

    The percentage the agency takes is negotiated between the agency and their client, and typically there is no negotiation at all, just a fixed percentage set by the client which might normally be anything between 10-35%.

    This has no bearing on the contractor's rate as it is worked out as 'contractor’s rate + agency fee', just as a permanent placement fee has no impact on the salary of the candidate placed.

    Frankly, it is a matter between the agency and client and the reason some contractors get excited by it, when permanent staff don't, says more about the nature of some contractors, it's really none of their concern.

    #2
    I disagree. For a start we should know what agencies are getting up to. Also, it is our job to make as much money as we can - and theirs too. We are not disgusied permies - we are small businessmen.

    Comment


      #3
      However, some of the better agencies have no problem telling you anyway.
      bloggoth

      If everything isn't black and white, I say, 'Why the hell not?'
      John Wayne (My guru, not to be confused with my beloved prophet Jeremy Clarkson)

      Comment


        #4
        If you want to keep the agency margin for yourself, it's very simple. Get the business yourself. Then you can claim all the income you have raised - and even pay someone else to deliver the work for you...

        What the average contractor hasn't figured is that 90% of an agency's sales effort doesn't return anything, and the work they do get carries a significant amount of fiancial risk - 30 contractors on your books and you're carrying a permanent £250k of lost capital that has to be paid for. Without a fixed agreement through a PSL the agency needs 8-10% just to keep operating.
        Blog? What blog...?

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by BrilloPad View Post
          I disagree. For a start we should know what agencies are getting up to. Also, it is our job to make as much money as we can - and theirs too. We are not disgusied permies - we are small businessmen.
          Then you should also know that it is very common for new contractors to get royally ripped off, exactly because they have not yet learned this. From your tone I would anticipate that you would not give a **** about them being ripped off. But I do, that's why I objected to this piece of agency propaganda being on the CUK home page. Surely this site is aimed at helping contractors, not helping agencies. Providing balanced information is part of that help.

          So you missed my main point completely. Never mind, I'm a patient man. To repeat, it was that there should be a balance in articles of this type. Any article on the subject that only presents a one-sided agency-driven point of view is not going to help less experienced contractors learn the sad reality of the situation.

          Agency propaganda should not be found in articles on the CUK home page, that's the point. Get it?

          What happens elsewhere, like here in discussion forums, is another matter. Discussions here (usually) contain a healthy mixture of points of view, as they should do.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by malvolio View Post
            If you want to keep the agency margin for yourself, it's very simple. Get the business yourself. Then you can claim all the income you have raised - and even pay someone else to deliver the work for you...

            What the average contractor hasn't figured is that 90% of an agency's sales effort doesn't return anything, and the work they do get carries a significant amount of fiancial risk - 30 contractors on your books and you're carrying a permanent £250k of lost capital that has to be paid for. Without a fixed agreement through a PSL the agency needs 8-10% just to keep operating.
            You are putting words into my mouth there, or words into my keyboard. So no, I don't want to keep the agency margin for myself. But I would prefer it to be a known margin of a reasonable size, not an unknown floating margin that floats up to the 30-35% level (and more in extreme cases).

            So as far as I am concerned agents are welcome to say (just picking a figure out of the air) 20%, I don't mind that at all. I could even wear 25% to be honest, depending on the agent.

            I don't have access to numbers on this, but I assume that a small agency does not have the economy of scale that a large agency has. So I would not mind the small agency having a higher %, because of that.

            So in a nutshell, I certainly don't begrudge any agent trying to make a living. That's would be selfish and also quite stupid of me, as I clearly need agents to find me work.

            I have known some decent, professional, straight dealing agents. But I have also known some that would sell their own grandmother for a quick buck. I'm all in favour of the straight-dealing agents suceeding in the line of business they have chosen. But equally I'd like the bad agents to become well known to the contracting community and to lose out in the long run to the benefit of the good agents (and the contactors that use them).

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by abc View Post
              You are putting words into my mouth there, or words into my keyboard. So no, I don't want to keep the agency margin for myself. But I would prefer it to be a known margin of a reasonable size, not an unknown floating margin that floats up to the 30-35% level (and more in extreme cases).

              So as far as I am concerned agents are welcome to say (just picking a figure out of the air) 20%, I don't mind that at all. I could even wear 25% to be honest, depending on the agent.

              I don't have access to numbers on this, but I assume that a small agency does not have the economy of scale that a large agency has. So I would not mind the small agency having a higher %, because of that.

              So in a nutshell, I certainly don't begrudge any agent trying to make a living. That's would be selfish and also quite stupid of me, as I clearly need agents to find me work.

              I have known some decent, professional, straight dealing agents. But I have also known some that would sell their own grandmother for a quick buck. I'm all in favour of the straight-dealing agents suceeding in the line of business they have chosen. But equally I'd like the bad agents to become well known to the contracting community and to lose out in the long run to the benefit of the good agents (and the contactors that use them).
              Presumably that's why PCG have just launched AgencyWatch then...

              I don't disagree with you, but we do need to be clear that if we are going to use agencies, then we are going to have to learn to live with margins and worry about what we get out of the deal (yes, I know the cry, I'll lose work if I'm priced too high by the agency margin. Well so does the agency, so get real).

              There is a better way, incidentally, but I won't get that off the ground overnight.
              Blog? What blog...?

              Comment


                #8
                I think we'd all rather agents were just honest and upfront about it. Then we wouldn't have the situation of when they say "the client doesn't want to go that high" we don't automatically assume he's trying to line his own pockets.

                I don't agree that the news story is propoganda. They asked a "city recruiter" for a quote, and reported what was said. It's not CUK saying it.
                Will work inside IR35. Or for food.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by VectraMan View Post
                  I think we'd all rather agents were just honest and upfront about it. Then we wouldn't have the situation of when they say "the client doesn't want to go that high" we don't automatically assume he's trying to line his own pockets.

                  I don't agree that the news story is propoganda. They asked a "city recruiter" for a quote, and reported what was said. It's not CUK saying it.
                  propaganda

                  My point was that they should show different points of view.

                  Just carrying a quote from a nameless "city recruiter" that (in a nutshell) says "it's really none of their concern" is hardly balanced reporting.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by malvolio View Post
                    Presumably that's why PCG have just launched AgencyWatch then...
                    That's good news - I'll take a look...

                    Comment

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