Computer science graduates struggle to secure their first jobs

[NotAllThere]

and i can spell sponsOred.

Well done. And did you get a gold star from teacher from neatly colouring maps?

Still, you people with degrees can always smugly look down on us from the dole Queue

I've never been on the dole queue. What's it like?

For at least a decade the joke has been

"What's the most commonly asked question by CS graduates?"
"Would you like fries with that".

[Dorkeaux]

Or, "How do you improve the aerodynamics of a CS graduate's car?"
"Remove the Domino's Pizza sign from the roof."

Alternatively,
"What do you call a nerd after graduation?"
"Boss"

[Sub]

Hmm. I guess you just didn't get the A level grades you needed. Never mind.

I did not know what "A-levels" mean couple of years ago - had to google it to understand why my eldest plan to stay in school for 2 more years. All my formal education was in another country and I never needed to prove it here, simply because no one was interested. Not in major banks or tech giants or government agencies I was working for.
I observe two types of people defending higher education for IT guys, 60+ elders projecting their outdated experiences to modern times and people who made costly mistake to graduate in IT and have no courage to admit it. It is mostly former.

[oliverson]

No disrespect to people without degrees as I am sure there are plenty talented people in that category.

In my experience when it comes to computer programming specifically, I have worked with a large number of people with non-CS degrees and a smaller number of people with CS degrees. Hands down, the ones with CS degrees were miles better at it.

I have always thought programming is a strange profession in that if you have a CS degree its a bit like being a doctor, or lawyer or architect but having to work in teams of people who mainly do not have training in those disciplines and are just sort of winging it. Unthinkable in the case of doctors, lawyers or architects, but maybe those professions carry a much higher level of responsibility for life and law.

My findings mostly. It's very much like when I pull into a Tesla SuperCharger site and unfortunately they've opened it up to non-Teslas. We have the Tesla drivers (the CS degrees), rubbing shoulders with the non-Tesla EV drivers (the self-taught, code bootcamp hacking brigade), occupying two charging bays because their EV is a pile of tulipe.

[Dorkeaux]

My findings mostly. It's very much like when I pull into a Tesla SuperCharger site and unfortunately they've opened it up to non-Teslas. We have the Tesla drivers (the CS degrees), rubbing shoulders with the non-Tesla EV drivers (the self-taught, code bootcamp hacking brigade), occupying two charging bays because their EV is a pile of tulipe.

AH ha haa.. I love Alan Partridge.

[sadkingbilly]

there's nothing so pitiful as unemployed elitists

[oliverson]

there's nothing so pitiful as unemployed elitists

I'm still employed and receiving a salary, just no customers at the moment.

[willendure]

Employed elitists on the other hand get to enjoy being insufferable snobs from time to time.

Bad engineering is the bane of my life. The only projects I have worked on that have been truly well engineered are the ones where I got in when it was still greenfield.

[NotAllThere]

I did not know what "A-levels" mean couple of years ago - had to google it to understand why my eldest plan to stay in school for 2 more years. All my formal education was in another country and I never needed to prove it here, simply because no one was interested. Not in major banks or tech giants or government agencies I was working for.
I observe two types of people defending higher education for IT guys, 60+ elders projecting their outdated experiences to modern times and people who made costly mistake to graduate in IT and have no courage to admit it. It is mostly former.

While it's a fact that nobody cares about your degree after your 1st (maybe 2nd) job, you really haven't got out much, have you?

In many countries in the early 2000s if you didn't have degree, you couldn't get a work permit. Good luck with changing countries.

Student loans didn't come in for living expenses until 1990. Tuition fees didn't come in until 1998. So your "60+ elders" is a tad too old. Further do you really believe that what universities teach really relevant to working in industry. Such silly naivity! You also seem to be utterly unaware that those of us who have been in the industry for the past 30-50 years have done so precisely because we've updated our skills and have very relevant and useful experience.

Silly child.

Go find a ball and play with it. The adults are talking.

[willendure]

Interesting that those denigrating the value of education are generally those that do not have it.

Yes, there is unfairness in that coming from a wealthier family makes it easier to access education. But I do not look down on those without it. Some of my best friends at uni, and amongst the smartest and most dedicated were those from less advantaged backgrounds. I also know plenty people of more advantaged backgrounds than myself who neglected their education and are worse off for it.

Also there is a lot more to being educated that what you directly get out of it, in terms of employment. The education itself is of great personal value. I still worked hard to get an education despite having some advantages in the first place. I still work hard at it now, and I read many non-fiction and technical books every year, and watch discussions and interviews with smart people just about every day.

Education helps you make sense of yourself, your life and the world around you. Sometimes people that denigrate education need to be reminded of this. I am proud to be educated, and I know that it is something that I worked to obtain. Sacrifices were made to obtain it too on the part of my parents and I will ever be grateful for it - my education is really the only thing they ever bought for me.

I don't look down on those without education, but I do know that in some sense you are less than me for what you did not make a commitment to. In the same way that I would say most people are less good at playing the piano than I am, because they did not sit there and practice for X thousand hours like I did. I have something that most people do not and cannot be taken away from me, except perhaps by old age and senility.