Does hybrid working mean it's inside IR35?

[KinooOrKinog]

I'm interviewing for a role later today that has seemingly already been determinded as outside IR35 (haven't seen an SDS yet), but I've been told by the agent that the client wants two days a week in the office. I understand that there may be valid reasons for being in the office part of the time and that it's not always about presenteeism, but does the client requirement for two days a week put me inside IR35? Or do the reasons/circumstances matter?

[northernladuk]

Your lack of understanding of what you do, how you do it and relevant key legislation puts you inside IR35 by default regardless of what the gig says How can you profess to be working outside IR35 when you don't understand the differences?

But on to an answer. What did you do in the old days when you were onsite 5 days a week? Were you inside then? Is every other supplier on site inside? Can a business not operate as a business if it's present on site for some or all of the time? I think you have your answer.

There is then other point that the IR35 status isn't your problem anymore (to an extent without going down that rabbit hole)

You've been around since 2019 so not a noob. You must have seen discussion on this or general IR35 discussions that might have helped you work this one out?

[eek]

I'm interviewing for a role later today that has seemingly already been determinded as outside IR35 (haven't seen an SDS yet), but I've been told by the agent that the client wants two days a week in the office. I understand that there may be valid reasons for being in the office part of the time and that it's not always about presenteeism, but does the client requirement for two days a week put me inside IR35? Or do the reasons/circumstances matter?

No - it's basically saying the client is looking / expecting the person to be in the office X days a week.

Your attendance at the office has zilch to do with the IR35 status of your contract - it's just how the end client expects things to work..

My viewpoint is do I get value (for myself and the customer) by being in the office. If it allows me to discuss things in person perfect, if it just means I drive in and spend the days in zoom calls I'm staying at home where I have a far better set up than most offices.

[KinooOrKinog]

Your lack of understanding of what you do, how you do it and relevant key legislation puts you inside IR35 by default regardless of what the gig says How can you profess to be working outside IR35 when you don't understand the differences?

But on to an answer. What did you do in the old days when you were onsite 5 days a week? Were you inside then? Is every other supplier on site inside? Can a business not operate as a business if it's present on site for some or all of the time? I think you have your answer.

There is then other point that the IR35 status isn't your problem anymore (to an extent without going down that rabbit hole)

You've been around since 2019 so not a noob. You must have seen discussion on this or general IR35 discussions that might have helped you work this one out?

Well, I don't think it's a lack of understanding. I do understand it, but having read loads of IR35 discussions I think that's part of my problem. I've started second guessing it. That and the fact that there doesn't seem to be any consistency with what HMRC do and whether they play by their own rules or not.

[northernladuk]

Well, I don't think it's a lack of understanding. I do understand it, but having read loads of IR35 discussions I think that's part of my problem. I've started second guessing it. That and the fact that there doesn't seem to be any consistency with what HMRC do and whether they play by their own rules or not.

I can understand that to be fair but this one really doesn't need second guessing. Also one minor flag (which it isn't anyway) doesn't and hasn't ever put you inside.

What would a business do?
What do other suppliers that are in business do?
What is professional courtesy to a client?
Is it one of the three pillars?
Is IR35 my responsibility anyway at this point?

Attendance on site has never been a factor in IR35 historically so nothing has changed here.

[eek]

I can understand that to be fair but this one really doesn't need second guessing. Also one minor flag (which it isn't anyway) doesn't and hasn't ever put you inside.

What would a business do?
What do other suppliers that are in business do?
What is professional courtesy to a client?
Is it one of the three pillars?
Is IR35 my responsibility anyway at this point?

Attendance on site has never been a factor in IR35 historically so nothing has changed here.

Don't you mean Is it one of the two pillars?

the Supreme Court said even very short term Mutuality of obligation ticks that requirement making it's use as a get out clause impossible...

[northernladuk]

Don't you mean Is it one of the two pillars?

the Supreme Court said even very short term Mutuality of obligation ticks that requirement making it's use as a get out clause impossible...

And there is the RoS which the courts have called a sham before... so one pillar then

[eek]

And there is the RoS which the courts have called a sham before... so one pillar then

I've always thought RoS when you have specialist skills is a complete sham anyway - the irony is that I did some work as a substitute last month.

[jamesbrown]

I've always thought RoS when you have specialist skills is a complete sham anyway - the irony is that I did some work as a substitute last month.

To be perfectly honest, D&C isn’t a slam dunk with specialist skills either. It is true that the gap is narrowing and you really do need to be vigilant. That said, it’s good to have complete control over where, when and how you do the work, notwithstanding the need for mutually agreed client meetings/contact. The old pillars are all still relevant to varying degrees (and note that PGMOL remains undecided/kicked back), but the big picture is what really matters, how everything adds up.