Small company only doing Inside contracts

[Lance]

maybe they want you offer them MOO, have no ROS and be under direct control...

maybe. Just guessing really based on the criteria of what inside/outside is determined by. They could well have made that decision and that's the end of it.

Be clear. though.... if you persuade them that you will make the determination, and are investigated, and they say "well it was always inside but Ensignia wanted to dodge the rules", then you are f***ed.

[rocktronAMP]

I thought the distinction/question was that a small company isn't allowed to make the determination, while a large company must do so. Is this not correct - is it a responsibility a small company can opt in/out of?

This is the small company business exemption.

If it were me, I would explain this part of the Off Payroll Worker to them. I bet you already have. Ergo I would walk away from them if they refuse Outside IR35, because you don't need SDS. You might however need some formal declaration of balance sheet, turnover and employee account should the revenue come calling in 2024, 2025, ...!

So as others have said, the ultimate client (if they are not lying about another business owning them) are risk adverse.
Perahaps they are being cagey with the truth, suspicion points to a new merger and acquisition in 2023! They will be bought or they are thinking of buying....

[edison]

To be fair from what I've seen from interviews, heard about from other contractors and what I've seen on here I'm pretty much of the opinion 'most' start up gigs are inside anyway. Due to the all hands on deck approach D&C is a real problem and they rarely have enough people to leave you to just deliver to your SoW. They also don't want a company, they want you so RoS is right out as well.

Might be different for a 5 year old one but I'd say most are inside if you have a good look at the work and environment.

Then there is the issue they are too small to dick about with IR35 so inside it is.

I agree with this. I worked for a scale up earlier this year which had about 50 salaried staff and another 80 temp staff (not contractors.) I was brought in to do some CIO advisory work and I had a SOW which I wrote as the agent put together something far too basic. I was assessed as outside IR35 but to be honest, after a few months there, the client still didn't really understand IR35...