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Stupid Question - Outside Roles

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    Stupid Question - Outside Roles

    I'll admit its been a while since I had an outside role that wasn't PS so am a bit rusty, I've been offered a contract (and sent it for review by QDOS) but it doesn't say anything about it beeing deemet outside, there is no Status Determination Statement (SDS), is this a requirement? Is the QDOS check enough or do I need to go back to the agent?
    Originally posted by Stevie Wonder Boy
    I can't see any way to do it can you please advise?

    I want my account deleted and all of my information removed, I want to invoke my right to be forgotten.

    #2
    Yes. Do not start a gig without the SDS. They can supply it anytime up to the first payment but we've already got instances where the client has said inside just before payment whne agent promised it was outside. The SDS is everything now. If you've got that you don't really need Qdos to check it either but I'll still be doing it.

    My gut says if it's not mentioned anywhere then it's inside. There are loads of reason to put outside to attract best candidate and all the reasons to hide the determination if its inside.

    There is a sticky about being outside as well so read that as well.
    Last edited by northernladuk; 16 June 2022, 12:18.
    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

    Comment


      #3
      Oh that said.. If its a small client then you make the determination as usual but I'm assuming with your skill set this isn't a small client.
      'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

      Comment


        #4
        And read the stickes/do a search you noob.
        'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
          And read the stickes/do a search you noob.
          Yeah, WHS, noob

          Comment


            #6
            SDS has been supplied
            Originally posted by Stevie Wonder Boy
            I can't see any way to do it can you please advise?

            I want my account deleted and all of my information removed, I want to invoke my right to be forgotten.

            Comment


              #7
              Previous post removed. Not in professional, noob.

              Down with racism. Long live miscegenation!

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
                Yes. Do not start a gig without the SDS. They can supply it anytime up to the first payment but we've already got instances where the client has said inside just before payment when agent promised it was outside.
                What happens if the client agrees the contract is outside IR35 but never provides an SDS?

                ESM10012 - off-payroll working legislation: Chapter 10, ITEPA 2003 (from 6 April 2021): basic principles: Status Determination Statement (SDS)

                "Once the client has determined whether the off-payroll working rules apply to an engagement, it should communicate that decision in the form of a Status Determination Statement (‘SDS’) - (see ESM10013 for what constitutes a valid SDS) to the worker and any third party it contracts with. There is an incentive for the client to pass the SDS to the worker and any third party it contracts with because failure to pass on the SDS will result in the client being responsible for the deduction of tax and NICs, and paying these, along with any apprenticeship levy, to HMRC if due."


                "If the client does not issue the SDS, the worker can ask why. Under the off-payroll working rules a worker has the right to request confirmation of a client’s size (see
                ESM10011A). If the reason for not issuing the SDS is because it is a small non-public sector client, the worker’s intermediary should determine whether the off-payroll working rules apply, as per the rules in Chapter 8, Part 2 ITEPA 2003. If the client is not a small, non-public sector client, then any potential liability for tax, NICs and apprenticeship levy under the off-payroll working rules would rest with them as they have not issued the SDS."

                There doesn't seem to be much incentive for the worker to chase for the SDS in this instance?
                Last edited by Guy Incognito; 12 August 2022, 10:07.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Guy Incognito View Post

                  What happens if the client agrees the contract is outside IR35 but never provides an SDS?

                  ESM10012 - off-payroll working legislation: Chapter 10, ITEPA 2003 (from 6 April 2021): basic principles: Status Determination Statement (SDS)

                  "Once the client has determined whether the off-payroll working rules apply to an engagement, it should communicate that decision in the form of a Status Determination Statement (‘SDS’) - (see ESM10013 for what constitutes a valid SDS) to the worker and any third party it contracts with. There is an incentive for the client to pass the SDS to the worker and any third party it contracts with because failure to pass on the SDS will result in the client being responsible for the deduction of tax and NICs, and paying these, along with any apprenticeship levy, to HMRC if due."


                  "If the client does not issue the SDS, the worker can ask why. Under the off-payroll working rules a worker has the right to request confirmation of a client’s size (see
                  ESM10011A). If the reason for not issuing the SDS is because it is a small non-public sector client, the worker’s intermediary should determine whether the off-payroll working rules apply, as per the rules in Chapter 8, Part 2 ITEPA 2003. If the client is not a small, non-public sector client, then any potential liability for tax, NICs and apprenticeship levy under the off-payroll working rules would rest with them as they have not issued the SDS."

                  There doesn't seem to be much incentive for the worker to chase for the SDS in this instance?
                  The reason to chase for it is so that you know everyone is starting from the same viewpoint and that you are not in the scenario where you think the role is outside and they think the opposite (and vice versa).
                  merely at clientco for the entertainment

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by eek View Post

                    The reason to chase for it is so that you know everyone is starting from the same viewpoint and that you are not in the scenario where you think the role is outside and they think the opposite (and vice versa).
                    Yeah, but if you have one of those nasty clauses in your contract that say your company is liable for any losses that the agency suffer due to IR35 determinations, then you don’t want an SDS since it could move the liability from the client to the agency to you.

                    Comment

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