Moving to the EU

[man]

From the first hit on google: "IR35 does not apply in circumstances where there would be no ordinary liability to PAYE, i.e. where the worker is non-resident and the work is performed outside the UK. "
https://www.kingsbridge.co.uk/blog/c...-andy-answers/

And here's another one, from the client's perspective:
"We are the UK-based End User of a Contractor who is tax resident in a country outside the UK and doesn’t provide any services in the UK. Do we need to determine the Contractor’s status?

IR35 does not create any new tax liabilities – it only applies if there would be a PAYE and/or NICs liability if the Contractor was engaged by the End User directly as an employee.

Where the Contractor is both tax resident outside the UK and performing all their services outside the UK, there is generally no PAYE or NICs liability in respect of that individual. This means you would not need have to carry out a status determination."
https://www.lewissilkin.com/en/insig...ational-issues

To be clear, I'm talking about non-UK (i.e. overseas) tax residents (and neither am I talking about how to leave the UK from a tax residency perspective). For the avoidance of any confusion, this isn't some tax dodge for people who live in UK. And as I said, I have no doubt that agencies and clients will be 'unwilling' for various reasons.

[jamesbrown]

Yes, we all know that. There must be a liability to UK tax, it doesn't create a new one. However, your exact words were, as quoted by eek:

probably putting you at a massive competitive advantage for 'inside' contracts, vs UK tax residents

Again, you will struggle to see this implemented in practice because the client will have supplied an SDS via the Fee Payer indicating that it's inside and HMRC will be expecting a deemed payment via the Fee Payer and they will either see no deemed payment (not likely, unless the Fee Payer is very stupid) OR they will see a deemed payment with a non-resident tax code (the best you can hope for), but that doesn't help with ErNI, only with PAYE and EeNI.

If you want to benefit from living and working overseas, then by all means do that, but working inside IR35 contracts via your own UK limited company is not really going to work, you will want an umbrella or a proper B2B contract via your overseas entity.

[BlasterBates]

+1 to bluenose (at least at the high level, as I can't say I've researched into the details of visa and personal tax rules Spain and Portugal). It's also worth realising that you don't necessarily need to incorporate your business in the same country you live in. So you can continue to work through a UK Ltd (and pay UK corporation taxes etc) while living abroad (and paying the relevant personal taxes for the country you are tax resident of - which is usually the one you reside in). Or you can incorporate in a different country (and pay the corporate taxes there, possibly as low as 0% for some countries), and then pay the relevant personal taxes in the country you're a tax resident of.

Massive bonus is no UK presence = no IR35 nonsense (probably putting you at a massive competitive advantage for 'inside' contracts, vs UK tax residents).

However, I can imagine some clients, and many agencies, will struggle to comprehend 99% of the above, so you'd better be in demand.

NB: Not advice - international tax and visa law is very complicated.

If you're travelling to the UK and working there, then you can run your contracts through your UK Ltd, if you're working in another EU country remotely then you need to register a business there. You need to be paying corporate tax where you work. If you work partly in the UK and partly in another country you need to split the business.

You can't simply choose to pay corporate tax whereever you want, there are strict rules. You have to register and pay corporate tax according to the rules where you are actually doing the work.

[Bluenose]

Having just come back from holiday I wouldn't mind working from the Canary Islands for a bit, anyone have any experience of doing this and any potential issues?

In terms of non-tax related issues, for 180 days you will be fine (just make sure you do a bit of homework about net speeds in your preffered location).

I have not had any net speed issues, the 5G and WIFI installed at apartments, especially in Tenerife is generally very good. Tenerife in particular has over 95% gigabit residential coverage. For 5G though you will need to use a Movistar SIM card (buy before you go).

re: tax-related issues. There will be people on the forum that have done the move because they have said as much in other threads (non-ir35 contract into u.k limited and then pay personal tax in EU) but we need them to get into the thread.

The problem is with these threads lately is that there is a bit too much bickering going on from peeps that think they know the answer but don't actually know the reality of how its working on the ground (no offence intended to fellow, long standing forum members).

[eek]

In terms of non-tax related issues, for 180 days you will be fine (just make sure you do a bit of homework about net speeds in your preffered location).

I have not had any, the 5G and WIFI installed at apartments, especially in Tenerife is generally very good. Tenerife in particular has over 95% gigabit residential coverage.

re: tax-related issues. There will be people on the forum because they have said as much in other threads, the problem is with these threads lately is that there is a bit too much bickering going on from peeps that think they know the answer but don't actually know the reality of how its working on the ground (no offence intended to fellow, long standing forum members).

The issue isn't tax - the issue is the method being attempted to get the work.

If you can go direct you aren't going to have a problem getting outside IR35 while sat abroad but few agencies are going to take on the complexity of an overseas worker when an equally suitable candidate is a phone call away.

You then have the separate issue of inside IR35 contracts where HMRC will be expecting a particular level of payment and the odds of finding a firm willing to do deemed payments (many don't) that won't automatically deduct both Employee NI and income tax will be incredibly unlikely

[Bluenose]

I think you (and others) are taking a very negative view on a not much real-world evidence and we need others that are doing this type of thing through the pandemic to step up and say what their actual experiences are on the ground.

I just find the pages of useless posts and bickering about the various tax scenarios/work scenarios that may or may not happen to an individual tiresome and puts these people off from posting.

The irony of my own post is not lost on me either.

[eek]

I think you (and others) are taking a very negative view on a not much real-world evidence and we need others that are doing this type of thing through the pandemic to step up and say what their actual experiences are on the ground.

I just find the pages of useless posts and bickering about the various tax scenarios/work scenarios that may or may not happen to an individual tiresome and puts these people off from posting.

The irony of my own post is not lost on me either.

Sorry I was posting the experience of 2 Eastern European contractors who have returned home. Direct selling isn't a problem (but hard work) but using an agency is often a nightmare and that nightmares usually occurs late on as the agency gets cold feet and then takes the second choice candidate.

And I would have thought all long term posters know that I don't post anything without fairly solid evidence to back this up...

As for the treatment of deemed payments - my work for the past 2 years has been with umbrella firms and others doing similar things -the idea that you can do deemed payments with an overseas worker - just isn't going to happen, the RTI software throws a wobbly...

[SimonMac]

Get an autónomo visa in Spain. It's basically a visa for freelancers/contractors.

You call call yourself a freelancer in Spain, but you still need a visa if you are not an EU national

[ConsultingTechArchitect]

You call call yourself a freelancer in Spain, but you still need a visa if you are not an EU national

This visa allows you to reside in Spain for 12 months.

"A self-employed work visa will allow you to live and work in Spain for a period of one year. After this, you can renew the visa for two years, and then repeat this until you reach the five-year mark. After five years of holding the self-employed work visa, you will be eligible to apply for permanent residency in Spain."

[WTFH]

This visa allows you to reside in Spain for 12 months.

"A self-employed work visa will allow you to live and work in Spain for a period of one year. After this, you can renew the visa for two years, and then repeat this until you reach the five-year mark. After five years of holding the self-employed work visa, you will be eligible to apply for permanent residency in Spain."

If you're not an EU citizen, the visa process is not simple.
Do you know what all you need to do to get a self employed work visa?
Do you know how long it takes to get one?