Advice on outside IR35 but first payments have TAX&NI deducted

[jayjay69]

Update: My agency contact claimed the client should have provided me the SDS but I called him out on it and put him to prove and provide it. No SDS no working outside IMO.
He got a bit arsey with his response but said he would contact the contract team to ensure I received it just in case...
At this point I made it clear that unless he produced something by COB Monday I would either walk or negotiate a better rate and work inside. If he told me it was inside from the off I would have upped the rate and made do....

[Paralytic]

At this point I made it clear that unless he produced something by COB Monday I would either walk or negotiate a better rate and work inside. If he told me it was inside from the off I would have upped the rate and made do....

Are you prepared to walk? Good luck, but unless you're got particular niche skills they can't find elsewhere, i suspect this is where it will end up. Good on for doing so though - its the only way these clients/agents will learn.

[northernladuk]

If he told me it was inside from the off I would have upped the rate and made do....

What if they wouldn't have upped the rate? Would you have taken the gig or walked? Not many clients will do this as the tax isn't their problem. Some will because they want to keep/get the best skilled resources but many have a charge sheet and that's that. It's not a given that the inside rates are higher than outside.

[eek]

What if they wouldn't have upped the rate? Would you have taken the gig or walked? Not many clients will do this as the tax isn't their problem. Some will because they want to keep/get the best skilled resources but many have a charge sheet and that's that. It's not a given that the inside rates are higher than outside.

+1 - most companies / departments have a budget for the work. They aren't going to up it just because the contract is inside IR35.

Now they may do so if after a while it proves impossible to find anyone willing to work for that rate inside IR35 but that's not going to instantly fixed.

[Antman]

I'd be leaving now, after a while the additional mileage you're putting on the car as well as the crap take home will really begin to grate you'll be pissed off then leave and then you'll have to explain to agents why the contract was for 2 months. On the plus side, it seems like there is a lot of demand out there.

[jayjay69]

All great valid points..
Originally I agreed the rate I wanted agency knocked it back by a small margin and we met in the middle fair enough it was outside 35 so still a decent amount, and was certainly good for the local area. If it was inside I would have kept with my original rate which would have balanced out the tax/NI.

The take home now is not bad but as Antman pointed out the travel costs are a factor going forward.

As a further update spoke to contact and he has got changes pushed through on CRM so that I am now outside and it confirms outside when I login and check on portal, I have still raised the issue of the SDS which I require before next pay day due to the fact that timesheet submitted today will be processed as out for next weeks run and don't want the added hassle of a possible HMRC check later down the line.
I raised the inside IR35 rate change and he stated that the agency/client are happy to increase the rate with an adjustment in my contract to reflect this rate, no other changes required. The client would like me to stay on and will approve the changes??
From the clients point of view they want another body on site if the current permie goes sick/leaves etc. This has me thinking about NLUK's point in performing a similar role to a permie even though it states I am here for projects only.

I am now thinking of stopping on inside but with a rate increase which will balance out. Any thoughts?

[northernladuk]

. This has me thinking about NLUK's point in performing a similar role to a permie even though it states I am here for projects only.

Permie project managers are there for projects only A contractor should be there for a single project only, maybe two but the work required should be well documented in a statement of work. If you are there just to do projects then you are inside.

[eek]

I am now thinking of stopping on inside but with a rate increase which will balance out. Any thoughts?

1 - the agency has managed to pull offtheir plan of pretending the contract is outside long enough for the contractor to fall for it and accept an inside IR35 contract.

Given the tricks pulled I would be leaving as I simply could not trust the agency (nor any end client willing to use that agency)...

[jayjay69]

1 - the agency has managed to pull offtheir plan of pretending the contract is outside long enough for the contractor to fall for it and accept an inside IR35 contract.

Given the tricks pulled I would be leaving as I simply could not trust the agency (nor any end client willing to use that agency)...

Thanks eek , that is the most serious consideration at the moment , I feel like they cannot be trusted to run this correctly either inside or out. As mentioned this is a new client for the agency and vice versa, I am inclined to think this agency normally balls things up or cover things up rather then this just being simple teething issue.
First time I have used them or even heard of them so in the dark on their practices...

[jayjay69]

Permie project managers are there for projects only A contractor should be there for a single project only, maybe two but the work required should be well documented in a statement of work. If you are there just to do projects then you are inside.

Looks like multiple projects so you are correct HMRC would see this as inside.