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Supposedly outside IR35 contract, but work looks in?

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    #11
    Originally posted by eek View Post
    Prior to today - in your exact scenario with an SDS issued and no agent in the middle I would have said you have nothing to worry about

    sadly, I’m no longer sure that’s the case so after I speak to hmrc I will post an accurate response
    Did you get to speak to HMRC? Would be interested in your response.

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      #12
      Yes, he did.

      And a rather large tax bill is heading in the direction of the contractor.

      https://forums.contractoruk.com/acco...ml#post2903325
      "I can put any old tat in my sig, put quotes around it and attribute to someone of whom I've heard, to make it sound true."
      - Voltaire/Benjamin Franklin/Anne Frank...

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        #13
        Have read through that but in that case from what I can work out the SDS was not issued all the way down the line.

        min an end client- PSC direct engagement with a SDS issued as outside, is that still the same?

        so confusing!!

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          #14
          Originally posted by jojingles View Post
          Have read through that but in that case from what I can work out the SDS was not issued all the way down the line.

          min an end client- PSC direct engagement with a SDS issued as outside, is that still the same?

          so confusing!!
          It is the same - it's an outside to inside determination with a battle over who is going to pay the rather large income tax bill....
          merely at clientco for the entertainment

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            #15
            Wow.

            What is the point of having an SDS then if it can be retrospectively changed?
            If the HMRC came calling and the company either did not want to fight it or thought they may lose, then every single company would just fold them and pay the BR tax and Employers NI as it will save them the full fee.

            No protection anywhere, seems the only way is to go back to Insurance for the risk of that happening.

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              #16
              Originally posted by jojingles View Post
              Wow.

              What is the point of having an SDS then if it can be retrospectively changed?
              If the HMRC came calling and the company either did not want to fight it or thought they may lose, then every single company would just fold them and pay the BR tax and Employers NI as it will save them the full fee.

              No protection anywhere, seems the only way is to go back to Insurance for the risk of that happening.
              What insurance? No insurance firm is going to protect you from an end client doing the dirty on you.
              merely at clientco for the entertainment

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                #17
                So are we basically saying that an outside IR35 role is effectively dead in the water. You can take them, have the right contract and the right working practices but still have the possibility that you could face a huge tax bill years later for no fault of your own with no way of insuring that risk?

                If we are then that is a real issue or have I misinterpreted these threads.

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                  #18
                  Originally posted by jojingles View Post
                  So are we basically saying that an outside IR35 role is effectively dead in the water. You can take them, have the right contract and the right working practices but still have the possibility that you could face a huge tax bill years later for no fault of your own with no way of insuring that risk?

                  If we are then that is a real issue or have I misinterpreted these threads.
                  Outside IR35 isn't dead in the water, it's just going to be rare - particularly for a lot of "contractors" who are really "permie-tractors".
                  Short term contracts (< 6months), for a specific project with timelines and goals, where you have a unique skill that the company does not currently have, nor will it need after project delivery, that is more likely to be outside than a Microsoft Office L1 support person brought in to man the help desk, or a project manager given multiple projects to manage, etc.
                  Those that choose outside contracts are running businesses where they are prepared to take some calculated risks. If you're looking for insurance for everything and others to take the risk away, then you're better to look for Inside or permanent roles. At least then you know where you stand and those risks are mitigated.
                  {emotionless greeting}

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                    #19
                    Originally posted by WTFH View Post

                    Outside IR35 isn't dead in the water, it's just going to be rare - particularly for a lot of "contractors" who are really "permie-tractors".
                    Short term contracts (< 6months), for a specific project with timelines and goals, where you have a unique skill that the company does not currently have, nor will it need after project delivery, that is more likely to be outside than a Microsoft Office L1 support person brought in to man the help desk, or a project manager given multiple projects to manage, etc.
                    Those that choose outside contracts are running businesses where they are prepared to take some calculated risks. If you're looking for insurance for everything and others to take the risk away, then you're better to look for Inside or permanent roles. At least then you know where you stand and those risks are mitigated.
                    Good post.

                    Question for the more experienced people who have a long term relationship with their clients. Do you have a Master Contract and take multiple SOW's or do you do a contract for each project they offer you.

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                      #20
                      Originally posted by jojingles View Post

                      Good post.

                      Question for the more experienced people who have a long term relationship with their clients. Do you have a Master Contract and take multiple SOW's or do you do a contract for each project they offer you.
                      Nope - I do a project, ensure the client is happy and move on to the next one.

                      Once you are talking about Master contracts and SOW's as a small 1 man band you are rapidly becoming an employee..
                      merely at clientco for the entertainment

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