Civil Engineer Contracting to Permanentt

**northernladuk** · 28 April 2021, 21:03

I'd be hard pushed not to snap their hand off and my normal outside day rate is quite a bit higher than 330 but that's because I'm over 50 and getting bored of the rat race. There is no doubt I'll be going inside at sometime in the next few gigs and I wouldn't be surprised if there is more bench time between gigs so I think in the long run a good perm gig is going to be better for me overall. For you? How are we supposed to know?

It is about security. A perm can lose their job quickly you are right but not as often as a contractor can spend a good amount of time on the bench. I felt I had job security in the past because it was back to back contracts all outside. I don't think that will be the case going forward so contracting won't be as free flowing or as lucrative as it was in teh old days. I don't think being confident about your contracting abilities is wise. You need to be nervous. It's not up to you, it's up to your client and there are a lot of very big clients putting people inside. You might be confident but the market isn't.

As with most of these contractor or perm posts you are missing the most important part which is what will you be doing in this perm job and how does it benefit you. More exposure to better projects, location (not an issue now adays I guess), social side of the company, the benefits. I really don't know how we can give good advice about a career change with absolutely nothing.

Look at the perm job and create a list of pro's and con's and see if the pro's outweigh the con's. Don't be too brash about how good a contractor you are either. Factor in a good majority of you work being inside going forward and add a dollop of bench time and then come back and tell us what you think is best for you.

**NotAllThere** · 29 April 2021, 06:31

£330 to £65-70K, is getting close to the same income. Definitely go for it. Although perhaps you've been underselling yourself for five years. When I went permie, I went to about 60% of my former income. (But work was seriously drying up, rates collapsing and it's still a very high salary).

**Motorola** · 29 April 2021, 08:41

Originally posted by northernladuk View Post

I'd be hard pushed not to snap their hand off and my normal outside day rate is quite a bit higher than 330 but that's because I'm over 50 and getting bored of the rat race. There is no doubt I'll be going inside at sometime in the next few gigs and I wouldn't be surprised if there is more bench time between gigs so I think in the long run a good perm gig is going to be better for me overall. For you? How are we supposed to know?

It is about security. A perm can lose their job quickly you are right but not as often as a contractor can spend a good amount of time on the bench. I felt I had job security in the past because it was back to back contracts all outside. I don't think that will be the case going forward so contracting won't be as free flowing or as lucrative as it was in teh old days. I don't think being confident about your contracting abilities is wise. You need to be nervous. It's not up to you, it's up to your client and there are a lot of very big clients putting people inside. You might be confident but the market isn't.

As with most of these contractor or perm posts you are missing the most important part which is what will you be doing in this perm job and how does it benefit you. More exposure to better projects, location (not an issue now adays I guess), social side of the company, the benefits. I really don't know how we can give good advice about a career change with absolutely nothing.

Look at the perm job and create a list of pro's and con's and see if the pro's outweigh the con's. Don't be too brash about how good a contractor you are either. Factor in a good majority of you work being inside going forward and add a dollop of bench time and then come back and tell us what you think is best for you.

It's probably always depends on circumstances. In my case I do like the flexibility of working as a contractor. Being able to manage your working hours is a big advantage. (I'm just comparing my experiences, I had 1 year work experience as permie and really felt the need to ''stay in work'' up to hours that states on your contract and feeling guilty if leaving earlier. Same thing I'm noticing with permie staff that work directly to same client that I'm working as contractor, I do have more of that freedom as long as I perform well it's less explaining of why I want to leave hour earlier or half day earlier. I feel as permie you are more controlled by employer and and contractor you have more power to flexibility of how you work (and the ability to quit if you don't like something, I've never been in need to quit, but just knowing that is advantage).

I'm thinking to stay contracting to be honest, but just want to hear others thoughts about it. I know that a lot is changing and it might be the end of contractors era maybe really soon, so I'm concerned (that's why I'm here now)

**Fraidycat** · 29 April 2021, 09:58

Originally posted by Motorola View Post

I feel as permie you are more controlled by employer and and contractor you have more power to flexibility of how you work (and the ability to quit if you don't like something, I've never been in need to quit, but just knowing that is advantage).

Yeah as a perm they own you, they have more ways to control you, annoy you and sanction you. eg verbal warnings etc.

As a contractor the only power they have over you is to fire you or not renew you.

A permie at client co was 'managed out', you don't get that BS as a contractor, they just don't renew you if they don't want you anymore.

**northernladuk** · 29 April 2021, 10:19

Originally posted by Fraidycat View Post

Yeah as a perm they own you, they have more ways to control you, annoy you and sanction you. eg verbal warnings etc.

As a contractor the only power they have over you is to fire you or not renew you.

A permie at client co was 'managed out', you don't get that BS as a contractor, they just don't renew you if they don't want you anymore.

On a rather pedantic point you don't really get 'fired' as a contractor. That's an employment term and better to keep it that way.

All the others are exactly the same just different wording so I don't think they make much difference. In fact they are all better for the income and peace of mind e.g you can get verbals actually gives the OP more job security so where it may annoy some it's actually better than being walked on the spot so not really a bad thing. Also if you are managed out and it ends you get more work as a permie, contractor hits the bench with no income so again that's actually a positive for income where as you seem to be painting it as a negative.

OP, on the flexibility thing. The world has changed. Permies are working at home just as much as the contractors, being in the office 5 days a week is likely to be a thing of the past and most clients are more than flexible when it comes to working times and being away from the desk. Arguable more so than contractors as they are more inclined to look after their people. I think you've got to take in to account the new world when you talk about flexibility and freedom. Permies are going to have much much more of that going forward so levels the playing fields a lot.

There are of course bad employers that don't follow this trend but you get just as many if not more bad clients.

**northernladuk** · 29 April 2021, 10:22

On the plus side, with an employer, if you are of the right mindset you've got the ability to grow in your role and either move sideways or upwards. Something that is very difficult for a contractor. £330 a day is very low for us IT bods so could be different in civil engineering but perm gives you a chance to hover up training and take some steps up the career ladder. Couple of years perm and you could come out as a programme lead commanding double that in the contracting world. You get that growth in the most unstable period for contracting. It's a bit of a gamble but when you pop out with your skills the contracting world could have settled and we are all back outside again. Double bonus.

**northernladuk** · 29 April 2021, 10:23

At worst just treat it like another 6 month/1 year contract. Going perm isn't the end of the world. You don't like it you leave and go back contracting. No great shakes. You tried it, it didn't work and away you go again. If you don't try it you'll never know.

**Motorola** · 29 April 2021, 11:23

Originally posted by northernladuk View Post

£330 a day is very low for us IT bods so could be different in civil engineering but perm gives you a chance to hover up training and take some steps up the career ladder. Couple of years perm and you could come out as a programme lead commanding double that in the contracting world. You get that growth in the most unstable period for contracting. It's a bit of a gamble but when you pop out with your skills the contracting world could have settled and we are all back outside again. Double bonus.

No need to compare rates with IT sector. £350 for Civil Engineer is the higher pay range. Same thing with working from home, you can't work from home as a Site based Civil engineer. But I do agree that it does depend on a company/client.
There are some good points you've mentioned. I can always treat it as a contract for 6months/1year and then see how all ends up. And all the growth potential might be worth longer term. I'm not too bothered to end up with bit less cash at home at the end of the year (as long as difference is not x2, x3). Main thing is if employer is actually considerate about flexibility and not just owning you then it's a really good offer.
Thanks for all of the replies, it's good to have 2nd opinion.

**Abbot** · 29 April 2021, 13:16

I completely get why you are apprehensive. Finished my last contract at the end of March. Found it easy to find a permanent position with a very respectable salary and pension, which I found surprising.

Fast forward 4 weeks and I have resigned today. I can't take this anymore. Not saying it would be like this everywhere and the job on offer to you may be exactly what you are looking for. For me, having the ability to do work taken away from me was a step too far. I only want to work and not do any of the other stuff that comes with a job.

Civil Engineer Contracting to Permanentt