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Fixed Term Contracts - what lunatics work on these ?

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    #31
    Originally posted by JohnM View Post

    I am seeing .net 6-12 month FTC contracts at £40-50,000 per annum

    Its a p*ss take mate, pure and simple, people trying to kid themselves the are the same as perm roles are deluded, these will have a far bigger negative impact than IR35 if they become common place because people continue to accept them and work on them

    If they want you short term tell then to pay contract market rates, if they want to pay you a perm salary offer you a perm roll

    FTC under a year in length are wrong, if you are working one of these you need to have a word with yourself
    You're wrong, as I tried to explain, a FTC can be (note: not always, not all FTCs are the same) the equivalent financially of an inside ir35 gig. Perhaps you're ruling yourself out of inside gigs too, which I suppose you might do if you're a bit dense.

    Either way, don't take a FTC, it's your decision. Trying to tell the market and everyone else what it is right to do based your misconceptions is a route to madness, you might as well shout at the moon.

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      #32
      Originally posted by JohnM View Post

      I am seeing .net 6-12 month FTC contracts at £40-50,000 per annum

      Its a p*ss take mate, pure and simple, people trying to kid themselves the are the same as perm roles are deluded, these will have a far bigger negative impact than IR35 if they become common place because people continue to accept them and work on them
      If people are taking those roles, then that is, by definition, the market rate for that role. Supply & demand. For me, that would be a signal to learn a less commoditised skillset.

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        #33
        Originally posted by JohnM View Post

        I am seeing .net 6-12 month FTC contracts at £40-50,000 per annum

        Its a p*ss take mate, pure and simple, people trying to kid themselves the are the same as perm roles are deluded, these will have a far bigger negative impact than IR35 if they become common place because people continue to accept them and work on them

        If they want you short term tell then to pay contract market rates, if they want to pay you a perm salary offer you a perm roll

        FTC under a year in length are wrong, if you are working one of these you need to have a word with yourself
        Things are not as black and white as you would like them to be. FTC fill a need and there are many people glad of the work they provide.

        You don't like them, that's fine, but you're not going to get much more from this thread I suspect.

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          #34
          Personally I would never take an inside IR35 gig. Lucky for me since all the outside gigs dried up I got a perm role, but if all I had on offer was a FTC I'd certainly consider it. I would never consider working inside IR35 - that is the real area we need to try to stamp out IMHO.

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            #35
            I'm on FTC. First non-Ltd role in the last twenty years. New contract early last year with a client whom I have worked for in the distant past, but not in the last decade. They initially wanted to offer "outside" roles but their legal dept kicked that into touch so they asked what I and several others would need to make FTC work.

            We calculated the FTC salary that would result in a neutral take-home package compared to "proper" contracting, including allowing for the fact that we'd need to be paying our own expenses out of post-tax income etc. Obviously this came in massively outside their salary scales but as it's a huge regulatory project and they had no other way of resourcing it, they eventually agreed. No pastoral or objective-setting nonsense either.

            Just renewed for another six months - and given that it's ended up being 100% from home, I'm actually better off than I would have been going via Ltd. Couldn't be happier - although that's only because they are stumping up proper cash.

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              #36
              Originally posted by JohnM View Post

              Yes but what reasons are there for a contractor to do one over a normal contract or a perm role, that is my point
              - because you want/need the work
              - because the location is right
              - because the company is right
              - because there may be training/new tech
              - because you want a perm job there and this is a good way in

              Lots of reasons. I've done 3 over the years for a number of reasons and enjoyed them. Pay isn't as good as day rate for sure, it's not always about money is it? All 3 offered me a perm towards the end of FTC period - I turned them all down as I didn't want to be a permie.

              It's not all black and white.
              I am what I drink, and I'm a bitter man

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                #37
                Originally posted by JohnM View Post

                I think you are trying to kid yourself with the 15K more comment, trust me NONE of the FTC on jobserve or total jobs I have seen are anything iike 15K more than perm, most almost identical to similar perm roles
                It's really simple then, don't take one. FTCs have been going for donkey's years, some people don't mind them.
                I am what I drink, and I'm a bitter man

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by Peoplesoft bloke View Post
                  Personally I would never take an inside IR35 gig. Lucky for me since all the outside gigs dried up I got a perm role, but if all I had on offer was a FTC I'd certainly consider it. I would never consider working inside IR35 - that is the real area we need to try to stamp out IMHO.
                  What is the difference between a FTC role and an inside IR35 role, apart from one is direct with the client (FTC employee) and the other is via an agency / umbrella payroll?

                  I guess the inside IR35 role is still business to business, where as the FTC role is business to employee directly?

                  If I had a choice I'd take the FTC roles (at the same pay) rather than IR35 via a limited company.
                  I design idiot proof software. Trouble is, they keep making better idiots.

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                    #39
                    Originally posted by _V_ View Post

                    What is the difference between a FTC role and an inside IR35 role, apart from one is direct with the client (FTC employee) and the other is via an agency / umbrella payroll?
                    Asking that makes about as much sense as "What's the difference between a peach and an elephant?"

                    One is how a contractor engages with a client. The other is a piece of legislation that might change how a contractor engages with a client.

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                      #40
                      Originally posted by Paralytic View Post

                      Asking that makes about as much sense as "What's the difference between a peach and an elephant?"

                      One is how a contractor engages with a client. The other is a piece of legislation that might change how a contractor engages with a client.
                      It probably relates to how the client views the role and where the budget is coming from.

                      An FTC is likely to be an HR decision with the person being to all intents and purposes an employee.

                      An inside IR35 contract moves things slightly as the money is probably coming from a project budget.
                      merely at clientco for the entertainment

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