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Fixed Term Contracts - what lunatics work on these ?

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    #41
    Originally posted by _V_ View Post

    What is the difference between a FTC role and an inside IR35 role, apart from one is direct with the client (FTC employee) and the other is via an agency / umbrella payroll?

    I guess the inside IR35 role is still business to business, where as the FTC role is business to employee directly?

    If I had a choice I'd take the FTC roles (at the same pay) rather than IR35 via a limited company.
    FTC is a contract of employment. The rate will be a wage pro rata so should be way less than contract that is inside IR35. Two completely different beasts and I think a lot of people are forgetting this. The IR35 contract should be on a rate card which is different to the FTC wage. The IR35 contract hasn't changed, it's just the tax position. To the client it should be the same as the old ones as your tax situation didn't used to be their problem. It is now as they have to make the determination. All they are doing is giving their opinion on the engagement where historically it was yours. It's still a short term B2B contract to deliver. FTC is a way of taking on employees.

    There is some odd stuff flying around about FTC's with day rates which they shouldn't be. That could either be some new beast to think about or it could be someone talking crap and getting it wrong.

    I think when you start seeing the pro rata wage rates on FTC you'll change your mind.
    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

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      #42
      Originally posted by northernladuk View Post

      There is some odd stuff flying around about FTC's with day rates which they shouldn't be. That could either be some new beast to think about or it could be someone talking crap and getting it wrong.
      I am on one of these new beasts. They have taken my day rate x 260 (working days in the year), to give a yearly salary. As the FTC is for 9 months this has then been pro rata'd to 9 months.

      So that take home is almost similar to that of being on an outside contract. Given that it is all remote there is no additional travel expenses either. Throw in 19 days holiday (again pro rata) and all the benefits of a perm (life insurance, private medical, pension etc) its a good package.
      I am already aware if I take the perm the salary is lower and I happy with that (if I choose to take it).

      In terms of the work, so far so good its good. Opportunity to be in an industry I have never worked in before, got a good IT Team.

      Any holidays I take I need to get approved and I have a monthly catch up/review with my line manager (yes that is the correct term now!) but these are all minor details.

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        #43
        Originally posted by Paralytic View Post

        Asking that makes about as much sense as "What's the difference between a peach and an elephant?"

        One is how a contractor engages with a client. The other is a piece of legislation that might change how a contractor engages with a client.
        No it doesn't. A client might no longer want to bother with inside IR35 gigs and use FTCs instead. In a time where private sector clients are preparing to take on the effort of assessing for IR35, they may have been advised that FTCs work out better/easier for them. Why should a client pay 12 months of contractor commission when commission on a 12-month FTC is less, for example?

        Client A might be "no PSCs, everyone via an umbrella"
        Client B might be more clued up on IR35 and understand what roles are inside and outside, applying appropriate contracts and working practices
        Client C might be PSCs for outside, FTCs inside
        Client D might be PSCs for outside, umbrella/agency payroll inside

        There isn't a standard approach to this and an FTC might be the only way at the moment to get work either for a particular client or at all. You also have far more rights via an FTC so that can weigh off against the higher rate of an inside contract. Both, ultimately, are non-permanent engagements at a client, but, for example, while you explicitly get holidays via an FTC, you are compensated for them in a contract's day rate.
        The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist

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          #44
          Originally posted by JohnM View Post
          Seen loads more FTC gigs appearing on job boards. Come on guys, who is doing these ?

          You get all the bad things about contracting ie no job securty, short term gig etc and all the bad things about permie ie low PAYE salaries

          Why would anyone work on a FTC ? I think they have got a cheek advertising these roles and they should be avoided like the plague, who is accepting these roles because you need to stop

          We all think IR35 is bad, imagine a world where nearly all the gigs are FTC
          Originally posted by JohnM View Post
          I would hazard a guess you aren't giving 100% and a full 7.5 hours per day to each client which I am sorry but is wrong
          You're one of those weird pious permies in disguise who claim to be outside IR35 aren't you?

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            #45
            Originally posted by TheGreenBastard View Post



            You're one of those weird pious permies in disguise who claim to be outside IR35 aren't you?
            The type who only went contracting to avoid tax. And before they did they slagged off contractors as tax-dodgers. That sort of piety?
            See You Next Tuesday

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              #46
              Originally posted by eek View Post

              It probably relates to how the client views the role and where the budget is coming from.

              An FTC is likely to be an HR decision with the person being to all intents and purposes an employee.

              An inside IR35 contract moves things slightly as the money is probably coming from a project budget.
              Not in my experience. I only work on projects (or at least I did when I was contracting).

              The last client I worked at imposed a PSC ban and they issued anyone on the project who wanted one with a FTC.

              It was still from the project budget.

              I left because at the time I had the option carry on being an actual contractor.

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                #47
                Originally posted by _V_ View Post

                What is the difference between a FTC role and an inside IR35 role, apart from one is direct with the client (FTC employee) and the other is via an agency / umbrella payroll?

                I guess the inside IR35 role is still business to business, where as the FTC role is business to employee directly?

                If I had a choice I'd take the FTC roles (at the same pay) rather than IR35 via a limited company.
                Inside IR35 means you are under direction and control like an employee would be, but you get no employee rights or benefits. There is zero point in an inside IR35 gig being a business to business relationship because the worker is being taxed and directed as an employee.

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