New contract inside IR35 via brolly

[northernladuk]

Thanks for your thoughts. I agree that the inside gigs is easier and can be nice. My issue right now is more that the rate hasn't been uplifted by the client to cover Employer's NI.
My second issue is that I discovered it myself by asking the agent. His response was "I don't know, I need to check if end client would cover Employer's NI and uplift the rate". he came back yesterday saying the client wouldn't uplift the rate but in the meantime wrote me an offer email mentioning day rate at "£400" so not mentioning it as an assignment rate => no upfront preparation at all
My third issue is that this agent forced me to work with a specific umbrella => very weird

The situation now :
I got an illustration from the umbrella where all taxes have been obviously deducted. I also got a contract from the umbrella that I need to sign. It came with a "drafted assignment schedule" so missing information like "Client: TBC by customer", no rate mentioned, no notice period mentioned etc...Is it the way it should work?
When I asked to get a copy of the assignment work to the Umbrella they said I should receive "a separate contract with my assignment schedule" from the agency - I haven't - should I receive that from the agent?

Thanks for helping out












T

You have no contractual relationship with the agent. You are employed by the brolly.

[philgo]

Just to clarify the ErNICs and Levy thing...

These are both the end client's liability . What actually happens is that the rate for the job that is passed on to teh agency is the total cost to the end client, so the £400 includes all the legal overheads (the agency's margin is separate, orf course). the various fees, taxes and levies come out of that at the umbrella and you get the balance - around 55% or so of the original.

So what you were offered was not a £400 a day contract but a roughly £325 a day one which is the amount including the taxes you are liable for (and we'll ignore holiday pay and pension provision for simplicity).

Basically the agency is advertising the rate at the full cost to the client's budget figure, knowing damn well that it is not the actual rate for the gig, but you wouldn't have accepted the real rate anyway. Deceptive but sadly legal unless you keep your wits about you. You're not paying the NICs and Levy costs, they were never in your fees.

Yep indeed sad reality.....but should be clearly explained by the agent.....which was not the case....

[philgo]

You have no contractual relationship with the agent. You are employed by the brolly.

Who gives me the assignment schedule? Are you saying it's not my business because it's between the client and the agent? Therefore I won't get one?

[philgo]

Just to clarify the ErNICs and Levy thing...

These are both the end client's liability . What actually happens is that the rate for the job that is passed on to teh agency is the total cost to the end client, so the £400 includes all the legal overheads (the agency's margin is separate, orf course). the various fees, taxes and levies come out of that at the umbrella and you get the balance - around 55% or so of the original.

So what you were offered was not a £400 a day contract but a roughly £325 a day one which is the amount including the taxes you are liable for (and we'll ignore holiday pay and pension provision for simplicity).

Basically the agency is advertising the rate at the full cost to the client's budget figure, knowing damn well that it is not the actual rate for the gig, but you wouldn't have accepted the real rate anyway. Deceptive but sadly legal unless you keep your wits about you. You're not paying the NICs and Levy costs, they were never in your fees.

exactly what happened....I know this is what it is ect...^^ but clarity from agency and client would nice...I guess they are still preparing for the IR35 private change rules initiating 2 years ago...

[Lance]

exactly what happened....I know this is what it is ect...^^ but clarity from agency and client would nice...I guess they are still preparing for the IR35 private change rules initiating 2 years ago...

guess again. They're just pulling your pants down because you are naive.

[philgo]

guess again. They're just pulling your pants down because you are naive.

My comment about preparing for 2 years is actually ironic ^^ I'm actually totally aware they could try to increase their margin on my rate by telling me they don't know about IR35 changes and Employer's NI because it's new etc......
Now all am trying to understand is how can I know it? Hence I was asking if I should not be provided with an assignment schedule showing rate, notice, start date etc from the agency? Any other idea?

[northernladuk]

Who gives me the assignment schedule? Are you saying it's not my business because it's between the client and the agent? Therefore I won't get one?

Assignment schedule isn't a contract. Maybe just bad wording on their part but yes they can tell you what you are assigned to do but not a contract. I must admit I don't know if they will send it direct or it will come to you via the brolly. The latter follows the proper contract route but the former seems to make more sense.

[philgo]

Assignment schedule isn't a contract. Maybe just bad wording on their part but yes they can tell you what you are assigned to do but not a contract. I must admit I don't know if they will send it direct or it will come to you via the brolly. The latter follows the proper contract route but the former seems to make more sense.

This is exactly where the grey area is actually...

On one side I have a contract from the brolly with a DRAFTED assignment schedule (no rate on it, no notice period etc..very drafted) attached and I need to sign off the whole thing.
On another side the agency has surely a contract and an assignment schedule with the end client. On this doc surely there is an assignment rate agreed with the end client.
So question is can you get assignment schedule direct from the agency? Answer is probably NO as you would see what end rate they charge to the client. Unless agency can produce one for you which actually show you the info but with a lower rate but I doubt it....I have asked the question to the agency...let's see....

[malvolio]

This is exactly where the grey area is actually...

On one side I have a contract from the brolly with a DRAFTED assignment schedule (no rate on it, no notice period etc..very drafted) attached and I need to sign off the whole thing.
On another side the agency has surely a contract and an assignment schedule with the end client. On this doc surely there is an assignment rate agreed with the end client.
So question is can you get assignment schedule direct from the agency? Answer is probably NO as you would see what end rate they charge to the client. Unless agency can produce one for you which actually show you the info but with a lower rate but I doubt it....I have asked the question to the agency...let's see....

they will claim (perhaps rightly) commercial confidentiality. the one that matters is the agency to you, possibly via the brolly for the sake of the legalities. And that won't state the corrected rate but the original £400 one or they risk blowing their little earner...

At its simplest, the bottom line is that the offer is £400 a day and you will get no more than £250 of it in your personal account (or less depending on any possible pension provisions). If that's not acceptable, don't take the gig.

[philgo]

they will claim (perhaps rightly) commercial confidentiality. the one that matters is the agency to you, possibly via the brolly for the sake of the legalities. And that won't state the corrected rate but the original £400 one or they risk blowing their little earner...

At its simplest, the bottom line is that the offer is £400 a day and you will get no more than £250 of it in your personal account (or less depending on any possible pension provisions). If that's not acceptable, don't take the gig.

Yep ....I understand the whole thing and debate around this Employer NI now.....tricky rules....
How come do you go from £400 gross to £250a day net in my pocket?