Client asking me to go to their customer's site to represent them

[7specialgems]

2 months into a 3 month gig, currently find myself the sole backend developer resource for client's project following a few resignations and a sabbatical starting (so the entirety of the SoW for backend development is effectively subcontracted out to me).

Client now wants me to start travelling to their customer's site on approximately one week's notice and hold technical discussions with their on-site software staff on the customer site, on behalf of my client, on the basis that I am the one who is doing the work, so I need to be involved in meetings.

Contract was ruled outside IR35. I have a single named site for work plus "and others as mutually agreed from time to time".

Contract says I need to pay for any expenses.

On the one hand my gut feeling is that it is inappropriate for me as a contractor to go and meet my client's customers on customer sites and represent their interests, and a permie lead should be doing it.

On the other, I am the only techie working on the backend of the project, and it is a techy to techy discussion that I would be having with my counterpart on the client's customer's side, which I ought reasonably be having with the stakeholders of the project, and if I was having those conversations either on my client's site or over the phone, I wouldn't question it.

So I am torn.

Does the circumstances I've described to you sound like an IR35 flag? Or am I being O.T.T and should accept their request to attend sessions with their customers on the customer site?

[northernladuk]

Forgetting IR35 for a moment... What do you want to do?

[WordIsBond]

Forgetting IR35 for a moment... What do you want to do?

This. Plus, is an extension likely and do you want it?

Personally, I'd jump at that, unless you are supposed to pretend to be an employee. But if you can give out your own business card, this is golden. It expands your network of contacts.

Does your contract forbid you from accepting work from their clients?

Go impress them with your knowledge and abilities and find a way to be sure they know you are a contractor. Don't ask for work, that comes later after you've left your current contract (unless they bring it up, of course).

That's the way a business would see it. "Oh, you are going to make it easy for us to get involved with YOUR clients?" It also may be an entirely reasonable thing for your client to do, depending on the project / software / client relationship. If it really is going to help facilitate the success of the project, that's to your benefit, too.

Put together a written statement, that says something like, "As per the terms of our contract, we have mutually agreed that XYZ Limited (that's your company) will send a representative to the offices of ABC on the following day to work with their technical staff." Get your client to sign it, and just get a separate statement for every time. That way no one can argue they are controlling you.

If the expenses are significant, your client should be willing to pay something to send you. It may be better for IR35 if you still pay the expenses but charge a marginally higher rate for those days to cover at least part of the cost. An extra fee also makes it clear that this is a mutual agreement, rather than them just sending you (SDC) under your contract.

[l35kee]

Introduce yourself to them as a contractor working on behalf of whoever. Then forget about it.

Unkess the issue is you don't want to and are looking to use IR35 as an excuse (which is what NLUK was getting st I guess).

[WTFH]

Introduce yourself to them as a contractor working on behalf of whoever.

Do NOT do that unless your client has said that is acceptable.

If the client has told their end customer that you are an employee (or not making it clear that you are not an employee) and you go in telling everyone that you're a contractor, you might not be hanging around very long. Very unprofessional.

If the client asks you to represent them in a meeting, you need to get them to make it clear to their customer that you are a contractor and are providing advice as such. When handled properly it can work in your favour.

My bigger concern would be about the expenses side of things. If the customer site is further for you to travel than to the client, I'd want to make sure the client was paying for it.

...my advice is based on contracting for about 20 years and having sat in similar meetings

[7specialgems]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

Contractual concerns aside, I am quite happy to go to the client's customer's site and I see why they want me to go.

I just wanted to ensure that it would be 'appropriate' for me to do so, and ensure that I don't incorrectly paint myself as an employee by agreeing to it.

[SueEllen]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

Contractual concerns aside, I am quite happy to go to the client's customer's site and I see why they want me to go.

I just wanted to ensure that it would be 'appropriate' for me to do so, and ensure that I don't incorrectly paint myself as an employee by agreeing to it.

I've done it loads.

As long as you and the client don't lie about your status you are fine.

Some people may accuse either of you of using politician like language to clarify your relationship but if they are too fecking thick to understand that not everyone the client has is an employee it's their own problem.

[vwdan]

Don't worry about it - I've even done this as a permie consultant, complete with "careful" language. Hint: You're here "on behalf of", and you work "with", not for your client.

I've had a few clients ask that I go all out and pretend to be a permie - I just point out that my CV and LinkedIn are all over the internet, IT is a small world and when (and it will) it all comes out everyone is going to look very foolish.

[Lance]

Contract says I need to pay for any expenses.

On the one hand my gut feeling is that it is inappropriate for me as a contractor to go and meet my client's customers on customer sites and represent their interests, and a permie lead should be doing it.

1) Insist they pay these expenses. This is an unexpected change in circumstances, although not a change in project. The chances are they'll be fine with that and your contract says not just as a formality. I normally get a contract updated to say 'any expenses, agreed in advance with the client can be claimed' or similar.

2) I disagree. Why can't you represent your client? They're paying you. You're a professional. They want you to represent them. What's the issue?

[psychocandy]

Feck me - does it matter what you're working relationship is with your client? i.e. permie or contractor.

Client has asked you to represent them. So what? Done it millions of time - you really don't need to tell their customer you're a contractor - its not relevant.

On the plus side, if client trusts you to represent them then its all good.

Paying for travel though is another thing. Unless you knew up front then no way - they need to shell out. (I did have one contract once that said "visits to customer site max once per fortnight- no expenses paid" so I factored this in. Ended up going about once every two months)