Things to check and/or negotiate in a new contract?

[CoolCat]

Got to say notice period on my side is the key one. A few times I have taken what the agent recognised would be a pain in bum client on, only on the understanding that my notice period was one day. This makes it much easer to deal with 101 issues by simply saying sort it out or I walk.

Same with expenses, have had problems with agency failing to pay expenses and on a one day notice period its quite easy to force them to pay by threatening to go.

I have also seen people sign 12 months contracts with no notice available on their side, and one month in they hate it and are being forced to work for another 11 months in a gig they hate.

[northernladuk]

I have also seen people sign 12 months contracts with no notice available on their side, and one month in they hate it and are being forced to work for another 11 months in a gig they hate.

I'd say they are not very good contractors then. No client will want a contractor on site who doesn't want to be there and although there maybe no notice there is always the ability to negotiate your way out.

[northernladuk]

Got to say notice period on my side is the key one. A few times I have taken what the agent recognised would be a pain in bum client on, only on the understanding that my notice period was one day. This makes it much easer to deal with 101 issues by simply saying sort it out or I walk.

Same with expenses, have had problems with agency failing to pay expenses and on a one day notice period its quite easy to force them to pay by threatening to go.

And just to pick up on this. There are many, much better ways of dealing with disputes rather than threatening clients and agents with notice. Agencies deal with these threats regularly and they know full well you won't walk just over some late expenses. All you do is make yourself look a pillock and will put you on the back foot when you really do want something negotiating like rate rises.

Spin it around. How would you feel if an agent or client threatened you with notice everytime there was an issue. You'd think they were a right set if tosspots and you'd be glad to see the back of them. The converse will be the same, I'd not more so as you are a supplier.

I can't help thinking all you put is a bit of an exaggeration or a bit fanciful. It is certainly not a very smart way to do business in the long run.

[eek]

Just reminded clientco that due to their mess up while they believe I have to give 4 weeks notices it's actually 0 minutes

[LondonManc]

WLMS

See what the contract says, there are two notice periods.
Theirs — even if it's a month, they could tell you not to come in tomorrow. No work means no pay.
Yours - you should be professional and finish the contract, however, things can happen. IR35/working practices being one good reason for going so you wouldn't want it too long. +1month in my opinion

Similarly no notice can be good - it's not something that an employee would ever have in their contract.

[CoolCat]

And just to pick up on this. There are many, much better ways of dealing with disputes rather than threatening clients and agents with notice. Agencies deal with these threats regularly and they know full well you won't walk just over some late expenses. All you do is make yourself look a pillock and will put you on the back foot when you really do want something negotiating like rate rises.

Spin it around. How would you feel if an agent or client threatened you with notice everytime there was an issue. You'd think they were a right set if tosspots and you'd be glad to see the back of them. The converse will be the same, I'd not more so as you are a supplier.

I can't help thinking all you put is a bit of an exaggeration or a bit fanciful. It is certainly not a very smart way to do business in the long run.

On the expeses one it was not a case of late expenses, it was refusing to honour previously agreed expenses at all. In threatening to go it forced the agencies senior staff to get involved who recognised that I was correct and overturned their decision. And I was 100% prepared to walk.

[Criticular]

Theirs — even if it's a month, they could tell you not to come in tomorrow. No work means no pay.
Yours - you should be professional and finish the contract, however, things can happen. IR35/working practices being one good reason for going so you wouldn't want it too long. +1month in my opinion

Why would you want a one month notice in the contract for you to give to a client while the notice period on the other end is zero anyway? Wouldn't it be better to have a shortest possible notice, e.g. 1 day or 1 week?

And if the client wants longer you may be in a position to say ok, but then if you give me a notice it has to be same length or there is a cancellation fee of number of notice days x daily rate.

[northernladuk]

Why would you want a one month notice in the contract for you to give to a client while the notice period on the other end is zero anyway? Wouldn't it be better to have a shortest possible notice, e.g. 1 day or 1 week?

And if the client wants longer you may be in a position to say ok, but then if you give me a notice it has to be same length or there is a cancellation fee of number of notice days x daily rate.

More often than not you don't get the choice. Many clients shy away from short notices or put an uneven one for fairly obvious reasons. They can bin you on the spot whatever the notice there is if they are smart so no benefit to them to have really short notices.

And good luck trying to push them to change or add cancellations fees

[LondonManc]

More often than not you don't get the choice. Many clients shy away from short notices or put an uneven one for fairly obvious reasons. They can bin you on the spot whatever the notice there is if they are smart so no benefit to them to have really short notices.

And good luck trying to push them to change or add cancellations fees

It's more about risk mitigation and the chips being heavily stacked in their favour.

The client has the pot of cash, while the agent and contractor want to get their hands on it.

The client's risk is that their deliverable (product, service, project) cannot be completed by the contractor (illness, inability to execute, jumping ship). They cannot mitigate for illness, the inability to execute *should* be mitigated by the whole onboarding process (interview + proof of who you are/what you've done) and the jumping ship risk is mitigated by the notice period. It's therefore in their interest to tie you down for as much of the contract duration as possible.

The agency will have standard engagement templates (upper contracts, Ts & Cs, etc) with the client to expose themselves to as little risk as possible (e.g. pay when paid clauses, no pay without signed timesheet, etc.)

No real notice is an occupational hazard of being a contractor. Don't think for a minute that they cannot make something up to get rid of you that day. That's not a risk though, it's an unfortunate fact of our way of working. Our main risk is that we put a day's pay at risk every day that passes between working it and being paid for it. I'd rather have a shorter payment term than a shorter notice period, if given the choice of one or the other.

[northernladuk]

All the above but we mustn't forget the notice period is in the contract with the agent not the client unless you are direct obviously. Small point but pretty pertinent.