Contract expired, being renewed but I have a new contract - notice clause

[WTFH]

Talk to the current client.


According to your first post you were in negotiations about a new contract. If you are on a client site and they are still paying you and they are discussing a new contract, then no matter how you handle it you are burning the bridges by taking a contract with a different client without first discussing it with the current one.

[northernladuk]

He has got a contract it's just not written down properly. A verbal or even email agreement is a contract in law.

The reason to have a proper contract is to avoid situations like this where you don't know how much notice to give.

Don't be silly. You know exactly what I mean and why he should have a proper one. Buggering about with implied contracts never ends well and can't be good for IR35. If someone is daft enough to not get their contract signed properly it's highly unlikely they are smart enough to be understand implied contracts.

[Support Monkey]

Don't work without a contract again. It's just ridiculous and there is no need. People have said on here it invalidates your insurance or something as well. Just before your contract ends tell them you will be leaving site and will be back when you have a contract. It will focus the client because they need work doing and the agent as it's their commission that's stopping as well.

That is exactly what I was told on my current contract, the client had forgot to sort the paperwork out with the agency for my extension and I was in my final week, there was no way they could get it signed off before the Monday so I was told there was no way I could be onsite without a contract.

Basically any insurance would be invalid if anything happened to me or the clients systems\data with no contract they were not covered from their side and they wouldn't be able to claim from me\agency if I caused any damage, so I had a lovely week pottering around the house and garden whilst they got their finger out and signed off the extension

[DaveJFT]

Talk to the current client.


According to your first post you were in negotiations about a new contract. If you are on a client site and they are still paying you and they are discussing a new contract, then no matter how you handle it you are burning the bridges by taking a contract with a different client without first discussing it with the current one.

They do know that there are changes to the terms that I'm very unhappy about, but seriously? Does anybody tell their incumbent client before going out looking for another contract - I've been doing this for 10 years and never heard of anyone telling their current client they are going to look for another contract. It's a surefire way to earn a termination and it could be weeks before the right contract lands. I've never had a client take umbridge with me for handing in my notice because I'm taking a new contract - that's what we as contractors do and that's what the notice period is for ...so that they have time to replace you and for you to do a handover and so that you have some time to find your next contract before the pennies stop rolling in.

[SueEllen]

Don't be silly. You know exactly what I mean and why he should have a proper one. Buggering about with implied contracts never ends well and can't be good for IR35. If someone is daft enough to not get their contract signed properly it's highly unlikely they are smart enough to be understand implied contracts.

I'm not being silly I'm being factual.

You are being silly by stating a email and/or verbal agreement isn't a contract in English and Welsh law.

[WTFH]

They do know that there are changes to the terms that I'm very unhappy about, but seriously? Does anybody tell their incumbent client before going out looking for another contract - I've been doing this for 10 years and never heard of anyone telling their current client they are going to look for another contract. It's a surefire way to earn a termination and it could be weeks before the right contract lands. I've never had a client take umbridge with me for handing in my notice because I'm taking a new contract - that's what we as contractors do and that's what the notice period is for ...so that they have time to replace you and for you to do a handover and so that you have some time to find your next contract before the pennies stop rolling in.

There's a big difference between telling before looking and telling after getting a new contract, signing the papers and just waiting to agree the start date.

So how were your discussions going with them about the changes to the terms?
Are you direct with the client or through an agent?

[DaveJFT]

There's a big difference between telling before looking and telling after getting a new contract, signing the papers and just waiting to agree the start date.

So how were your discussions going with them about the changes to the terms?
Are you direct with the client or through an agent?

I know there's a big difference - that's my point. One leaves you vulnerable - you've got to find your next contract and then work your notice; while you're looking the client has found someone to replace you and gives you your notice before you're ready forcing you to pick the first contract that comes along on unfavourable terms or risk a break in turnover - and the other is standard practice with any form of employment. As my grandfather told my father, my father told me and as I tell my son - never leave a job until you've got something else to go to. So, it's what I've always done and clients have never had a problem; they can't have done or I wouldn't get phone calls from the clients themselves asking me back direct.

I'm direct and negotiation hasn't been going too well. Every time I get a draft to review there seems to be something else they're trying to impose (rate reductions, hour and working time restrictions, IR35 vulnerable clauses, contradictory clauses ...even unnecessary and silly clauses that would immediately put me in breach of the contract as soon as I signed it!), hence why I started looking. This is my first time going direct and the first time a client has wanted to rewrite the contract from scratch ...which they obviously didn't think about until too late or we'd have been having these discussions weeks before my renewal was up.

[mudskipper]

I'm direct and negotiation hasn't been going too well. Every time I get a draft to review there seems to be something else they're trying to impose (rate reductions, hour and working time restrictions, IR35 vulnerable clauses, contradictory clauses ...even unnecessary and silly clauses that would immediately put me in breach of the contract as soon as I signed it!), hence why I started looking. This is my first time going direct and the first time a client has wanted to rewrite the contract from scratch ...which they obviously didn't think about until too late or we'd have been having these discussions weeks before my renewal was up.

OK - so the verbal agreement was that you would continue on the same terms. When the paperwork came through, the terms were different. I would think you have a good case for saying "No thank you. Cheerio." Being professional you could offer to continue for another week to allow for a handover.

[WTFH]

So, what have you told the current client at the minute?
Have you mentioned that you've been offered a new role (and is it an offer or have you accepted already)?
How many draft contracts have YOU put to YOUR current client? It's you that should be putting the contract to them, not the other way around.


Also slightly confused, you say that you get clients who ask you to come back direct and then you also say that this is the first time you have ever gone direct.

[missinggreenfields]

I know there's a big difference - that's my point. One leaves you vulnerable - you've got to find your next contract and then work your notice; while you're looking the client has found someone to replace you and gives you your notice before you're ready forcing you to pick the first contract that comes along on unfavourable terms or risk a break in turnover - and the other is standard practice with any form of employment. As my grandfather told my father, my father told me and as I tell my son - never leave a job until you've got something else to go to. So, it's what I've always done and clients have never had a problem; they can't have done or I wouldn't get phone calls from the clients themselves asking me back direct.

Therein lies the detail - you aren't leaving a job with nothing to go to, and this has nothing to do with employment.

Sounds like you've been incredibly lucky if you've managed to keep all your clients dangling until you complete the notice period and walk, so good luck to you though.