State of the Market

[Destiny2]

I've had a few calls from agents over the past two weeks. I'll take this as a good sign. I am so fed up of being poor and up to my eyeballs in debt.

But I don't get my hopes high just yet because the rates are horrible and the agents are as stupid as ever. "How many years of experience have you got? What was the last company you worked for?" - "It's all on my CV. Did you even read it?"

By the way, I do have a question to those smarter than me: can someone please explain the hiring logic to me like im 6?

Companies and recruiters: we're going to exploit the current market and offer bottom rates to top candidates. That's how we'll get the best people at the best rates!
Employees: I need this £150 per day gig to survive, but once the tables turn I'm outta here.

Why do they even bother? Those of us that are desperate enough to accept those lowball gigs / jobs will flee at the first signs of spring, without ever looking back. And the employer will still have to pay the recruitment fees and will have to start the search again. Not to mention, that I don't think anyone will give these employers their 100% at a 1/3rd of a rate. Seriously, what are they all thinking? That they can replace us all with swathes of Indian consultants? We know how that ends.

Companies and recruiters - we think IT lot should not be paid more than a certain rate. Their work is no different to the cleaners.
Let's advertise bottom rates. If we can get away with it, kudos to us. If not and no one decent applies, we will bump up the rate.

Problem is there are a lot of freshie and lot of Indian female students with depenedant husbands. Those husbands have experience of working in IT in India and they will apply for these roles and will be hired! I worked in a 2nd line team of a university and they hired such a guy. He had never worked in England before and they hired him as a perm on £18k pa!

I recently worked as a Project coordinator and my East European project manager ( yes, the east European bit is important I will tell you in a bit ) had never worked in IT or studied in IT before yet he was hired as a Project manager! He struggled to conjure proper sentences and he struggled to speak. In every meeting, he would go - Da, da da or so, so so before he started speaking. He did not know how to use Excel and apply filters or scroll down a spreadsheet! I was literally doing his work. This year, he has advertised my role as an Office admin required. Coming back on track, you have some hiring managers who do not understand what an IT role is and hence offer low rates.

[TheDude]

Half way through January and not a single call from a recruiter. 12-15 months ago I was receiving two to three calls a day.

Normally I am pretty relaxed about renewals but am feeling pretty apprehensive about this coming March...

[Unix]

I’ve asked my agent to check for extension as mine ends the end if feb. Also applied for another contract with higher rate on linked in just incase, it’s definitely quieter than when I last was looking.

[northernladuk]

I’ve asked my agent to check for extension as mine ends the end if feb. Also applied for another contract with higher rate on linked in just incase, it’s definitely quieter than when I last was looking.

No Eek'ing in professional forums. It's a bannable offence. Mods!! MODS!!!!

[dsc]

[...]
Companies and recruiters: we're going to exploit the current market and offer bottom rates to top candidates. That's how we'll get the best people at the best rates!
Employees: I need this £150 per day gig to survive, but once the tables turn I'm outta here.

Why do they even bother? Those of us that are desperate enough to accept those lowball gigs / jobs will flee at the first signs of spring, without ever looking back. And the employer will still have to pay the recruitment fees and will have to start the search again. Not to mention, that I don't think anyone will give these employers their 100% at a 1/3rd of a rate. Seriously, what are they all thinking? That they can replace us all with swathes of Indian consultants? We know how that ends.[...]

Same reason why often swathes of grads are taken on to do massive projects where you normally have 1-2 experienced people. Sometimes it works it seems "learn on the job" and all that.

[eek]

In other news - someone who knows the recruitment market is saying that Contract work is doing way better than permanent recruitment

No Eek'ing in professional forums. It's a bannable offence. Mods!! MODS!!!!

Eek’ing is perfectly allowed - I wouldn’t be here otherwise.

- back to topic, yep it’s definitely quiet there are people I know who would be working so there is a definite lack of contracts out there

[SussexSeagull]

There is an exemption for 'small' companies so that they do not have to make an IR35 determination, and it is left to the contractor.

A small company is defined as one which has any 2 of the following:

a turnover of £10.2 million or less.
£5.1 million or less on its balance sheet.
50 employees or fewer.

I was aware of that but it doesn't explain some of the determinations as my last one was quite big firm who I imagine didn't meet that criteria.

[sreed]

Problem is there are a lot of freshie and lot of Indian female students with depenedant husbands. Those husbands have experience of working in IT in India and they will apply for these roles and will be hired! I worked in a 2nd line team of a university and they hired such a guy. He had never worked in England before and they hired him as a perm on £18k pa!

Spot on. I don't think most people realise the scale of non-EU immigrants (and their spouses) using the student route for permanent immigration. Come in on a cheap 1yr masters, you get to work during the time here, you then get issued a 2 year graduate visa, and (unless you're completely useless and can't even cut it as an unskilled care worker) then a work visa - ILR - passport.

I had a scrum master colleague on a previous contract who was a dependent of her husband (student visa) with ~10 years exp in TCS India as a scrum master. She was on a bit more than half of what I'd consider as the going rate for that role and was well over qualified (at least technically).

I don't place any blame on the people making use of the above route to settle here, but I am mightily pissed off at Rishi & Co. (and his immediate predecessors) for making it so blooming easy!

[Destiny2]

Spot on. I don't think most people realise the scale of non-EU immigrants (and their spouses) using the student route for permanent immigration. Come in on a cheap 1yr masters, you get to work during the time here, you then get issued a 2 year graduate visa, and (unless you're completely useless and can't even cut it as an unskilled care worker) then a work visa - ILR - passport.

I had a scrum master colleague on a previous contract who was a dependent of her husband (student visa) with ~10 years exp in TCS India as a scrum master. She was on a bit more than half of what I'd consider as the going rate for that role and was well over qualified (at least technically).

I don't place any blame on the people making use of the above route to settle here, but I am mightily pissed off at Rishi & Co. (and his immediate predecessors) for making it so blooming easy!

I was having a chat with a mate today and we came to the conclusion that our generation ( we are in our 40s ) will be the last to work in IT and make good money. The next generation after us ( ones in 20s and 30s ) have absolutely no chance and our children will be better off working in retail behind the till!

British jobs for British first! Indians are moving here. Where are we supposed to go? India? Well, employers there will all refuse us as we are not Indian! Double standards!

[Unix]

I was having a chat with a mate today and we came to the conclusion that our generation ( we are in our 40s ) will be the last to work in IT and make good money. The next generation after us ( ones in 20s and 30s ) have absolutely no chance and our children will be better off working in retail behind the till!

British jobs for British first! Indians are moving here. Where are we supposed to go? India? Well, employers there will all refuse us as we are not Indian! Double standards!

If you are good at your job and able to work in a team you should not be replaced with an immigrant worker. Those being replaced are usually in lower skilled roles such as testing, project management, scrum master etc these jobs can be done be anyone really. Highly skilled Devs will always earn $$$, until AI can code but by then we will all be retired.