State of the Market

[JustKeepSwimming]

Could probably argue that they brought the reputational damage on themselves, if plumbing LTD says they'll fix your radiator, gets half way through and the plumber quits, and they have no other plumbers available, then reputational damage caused by you blacklisting them is their own fault for not having insurance against their plumber leaving, either having more plumbers, a plumber on standby, an agreement with another company for substitution, etc. - When I moved house the company I contracted for the removal van had a staffing issue and they simply called up another moving company they were friends with and those guys came and did it, and they said they help each other out all the time when needed.

In an outside contract, the onus is on you to supply an alternative or to have insurance that will pay out the damages. But as an employee of umbrella ltd, no employment contract would have a substitution clause in and even if there was one I doubt it would be legally binding.

None of this theory appears to have been tested yet, though, so who knows.

I would agree and I imagine the courts would take a look at the business model of both the umbrella and the client and put much blame on them. The fact a client might have key permie resources on 1-3 month notice but have key contractors on 6-12 month would raise eyebrows. You can't argue it would take 1-3 months to replace a permie but 6+ to replace a contractor.

A party who suffers a breach of contract is under an obligation to mitigate any losses. So if you can replace someone within 1-3 months then you can't claim losses for 6+ months.

You're right it doesn't appear to have been tested because it's not really in anyone interest to test it (although civil legal system isn't very transparent from a reporting perspective). Reputational damage to the client and the umbrella as being seen to go heavy handed against contractors isn't worth it, let alone the expense of it. Legalities are really just about the bottom line to businesses, and they will do whatever costs them the least money, which is typically settling or just sucking it up. I've known a few instances where a client found out an agency was doing shady stuff, like keeping day rate despite being on fixed margin, they were just blacklisted and told they will bring legal action if they seek to prevent contractors from moving to a new agency.

It would be interesting to know how many outside contractors have had to rely on their insurance to cover a mistake over the years, I doubt it's many at all.

[gixxer2021]

Fair enough. Who was the umbrella?

That also raises an interesting point. The remedy for breach of contract is recovery of costs caused by that breach (few exceptions). So in your situation, say you skip out on the contract without notice, the client suffers large losses (eg, the project is delayed). However you still don't have a contract with the client, you have one with the umbrella. So what are the umbrella losses? Their margin for the length of the contract, although you would argue that it's only the profit, as much of the margin is costs they won't be incurring processing you. Potentially you run the risk of the client blacklisting the umbrella because of you and the umbrella could argue damages resulting from reputational damage.

I don't think, and my gut feels, that the client's losses can be passed on to the employee via the umbrella contract.

This was with Parasol. I’d agree I’d be very surprised if anything came from breaking the notice period, but as it’s a client I’d worked with a few times before (and agency) I was more worried about being blacklisted from them than being sued. I did manage to avoid giving notice but refused a renewal as wasn’t enjoying it by the end of the contract.

[siddhantkumar]

* deleted,

[CoolCat]

Temporary workers coming to UK have to pay for NHS and Education fees on top of usual Income Tax and NI. Also family of 4 have to pay around £8-10k as visa fees every 2 years. These are some of the least advertised rules in tabloids.


Skilled migrants from outside EU zone means (I know only on IT sector) they are paid minimum £45-50k as permi. They cannot work in any other job so umbrella companies which sponsor their visa take huge cut and pay peanuts. (I would consider infosys, tcs, wipro etc as bodyshopping firms too. paying low salaries but charging high to the client)

not true, please get your facts correct

[andromedan]

Just had an Inside IR35 contract not materialising for a government agency, after passing all the background checks and waiting a lot.

Their excuse? I'm sorry we have no budget for it...

I can work anywhere in Europe but I'm getting tired of the market here...

[northernladuk]

Just had an Inside IR35 contract not materialising for a government agency, after passing all the background checks and waiting a lot.

Their excuse? I'm sorry we have no budget for it...

I had exactly the same!!! If there is one set of people that don't have budget pulled at last minute I thought it would be gov gigs. The amount of paperwork they've got to go through to hire you'd expect the budget to be the least of the problems. I was at pre-interview stage though. Put forward and waiting for interview. I mean you never know but I chalked that one up as agent BS because they didn't have the balls to tell me straight someone else got in.

[FIERCE TANK BATTLE]

They always ask how I'm doing, if I have any other opportunities, and the answer is always nope the market is completely dead, I have nothing, so I'm really excited to hear about this role.

Reality is there's always stuff cooking even if it's basically recruiter vapourware, but I'll be damned if I'm going to give even the slightest sign that I won't be able to take a role. Last thing I want is my CV in the bin.

[JustKeepSwimming]

They always ask how I'm doing, if I have any other opportunities, and the answer is always nope the market is completely dead, I have nothing, so I'm really excited to hear about this role.

Reality is there's always stuff cooking even if it's basically recruiter vapourware, but I'll be damned if I'm going to give even the slightest sign that I won't be able to take a role. Last thing I want is my CV in the bin.

I'm not sure if that is counter intuitive or intuitive. I feel most people would be inclined to overrepresent their hand. Thinking it's better to lie/exaggerate that there is some competition for their labour compared to giving the impression that something may be wrong with you.

I do find 'how are you finding the market' really annoying mind. You're the recruiter, you're meant to be the one who knows the ins and outs of the market, why are you asking me whether you're going to be able to pay your mortgage next month.

[Fraidycat]

"Policymakers are likely reduce rates to 4.25% by the end of next year, according to investment bank Morgan Stanley (MS).
In a note to clients, Morgan Stanley said they expected the UK to be in a technical recession by the end of the year, with the economy shrinking by 0.1% in 2024 before growing by 1% in 2025.
Meanwhile, financial markets are currently predicting that rates will have been cut to 5% by next June."

[JustKeepSwimming]

"Policymakers are likely reduce rates to 4.25% by the end of next year, according to investment bank Morgan Stanley (MS).
In a note to clients, Morgan Stanley said they expected the UK to be in a technical recession by the end of the year, with the economy shrinking by 0.1% in 2024 before growing by 1% in 2025.
Meanwhile, financial markets are currently predicting that rates will have been cut to 5% by next June."

COPIUM, COPIUM FOR SALE, GET YOUR COPIUM!*

*(No refunds, it is very possible for the BoE to shoot itself in the foot, for the 20th time).