State of the Market

[JustKeepSwimming]

Yes, it's tulip living in this country these days. I'm glad I was born when I was born. Luckily I got on the housing ladder in the early 90's and again in the mid-00's. In my mid-50's now I can feel my time as a contractor coming to an end. The point comes when you start looking at how many days you've got left, not what is the max days you can bill for this month. Also, what's the point having two homes, especially when you've no children to leave them to. What is the point continuing working full-time?

It's not really a 'this country' thing. Globalisation has wrecked the standards of living of almost all Western working and middle classes. We are working longer and producing more than at anytime in history yet most really are struggling to keep their heads above water.

[krytonsheep]

Seems to me now that if a client wants people to jump on a project, they go to a 'consultancy' for resources. Contractors once had the advantage of being able to agree contracts in an hour, but for the prudent that's long gone.

Personally, I don't know any contractors under 55; indeed most of those I know still working are coasting towards retirement. The younger ones I did know 10 years ago have become permie, or left the UK (which is what I suggest to anyone who's young, skilled and mobile).

All of us here have got different experiences based on industry and where we've worked etc. In the places I've been involved I've yet to see clients reaching for a consultancy when they just need a couple more people on a project. Contractors are a lot easier to deal with if there's anything confidential or sensitive involved.

Thinking back 10 years to all the people I knew who were contracting, I'd take a rough guess at 30% are still contractors, rest are permie (ages 30-60).

[sadkingbilly]

We are working longer and producing more than at anytime in history yet most really are struggling to keep their heads above water.

well, i'm not either working longer or struggling.
maybe it's the greedy, overextended ones with overlarge houses/cars/egos who are?

[JustKeepSwimming]

well, i'm not either working longer or struggling.
maybe it's the greedy, overextended ones with overlarge houses/cars/egos who are?

Or you can look at the data rather than using your own personal experience and prejudice? Peak 'It's cold out, what is global warming lol'.

[MyUserName]

Personally, I don't know any contractors under 55; indeed most of those I know still working are coasting towards retirement. The younger ones I did know 10 years ago have become permie, or left the UK (which is what I suggest to anyone who's young, skilled and mobile).

I am 46, the two other contractors on my team are slightly older. I put it down to me the main tech stack here being C++ which has gone out of fashion and generally clients insist you know so many weird nocks and crannies that it is a wonder anyone passes the interviews.

Now you mention it I cannot think of any young contractors off the top of my head.

[NotAllThere]

Now you mention it I cannot think of any young contractors off the top of my head.

I can. So long as 30 is still young.

[mem80]

It's not really a 'this country' thing. Globalisation has wrecked the standards of living of almost all Western working and middle classes. We are working longer and producing more than at anytime in history yet most really are struggling to keep their heads above water.

Are you sure it is not 'this country? Have a look at those statistics of my own recent experience:
- UK - over 100 applications - 6 months out of work - 3 interviews - 0 offers (got 1 offer but was withdrawn before I signed the contract)
- Poland - 5 applications - 4 interviews - 2 offers (in 3 weeks) - day rate of equivalent to 350 GBP / day - cost of living: 30-40% cheaper than the UK - taxes and NICs - 15-20% total - no IR35 and other similar regulations
- Austria - my colleague did the similar test of market in Austria - got the 3 interviews based on 5-6 applications and an offer based on it

Generally, based on my and my colleague's market test, I see the IT markets in Poland and Austria are still very open for contractors.
Not sure why UK is closed for couple of months. IR35? High Interests rates? brexit? higher corporation taxes? layoffs in giant american companies? remote work (cheaper workforce in other countries)?

Likely everything of those accumulated.

[Fraidycat]

- Poland - 5 applications - 4 interviews - 2 offers (in 3 weeks) - day rate of equivalent to 350 GBP / day - cost of living: 30-40% cheaper than the UK - taxes and NICs - 15-20% total - no IR35 and other similar regulations

Agree its not the whole western world.
When i was at the London office of a Austin Texas based client, one of the US permie managers told me he was taking home almost 75%, on approximately $200K salary.

I looked it up on a tax calculator, he was paying just 19% income tax. 5% Social security. 1.5% Medicare.

[JustKeepSwimming]

s

Are you sure it is not 'this country? Have a look at those statistics of my own recent experience:
- UK - over 100 applications - 6 months out of work - 3 interviews - 0 offers (got 1 offer but was withdrawn before I signed the contract)
- Poland - 5 applications - 4 interviews - 2 offers (in 3 weeks) - day rate of equivalent to 350 GBP / day - cost of living: 30-40% cheaper than the UK - taxes and NICs - 15-20% total - no IR35 and other similar regulations
- Austria - my colleague did the similar test of market in Austria - got the 3 interviews based on 5-6 applications and an offer based on it

Generally, based on my and my colleague's market test, I see the IT markets in Poland and Austria are still very open for contractors.
Not sure why UK is closed for couple of months. IR35? High Interests rates? brexit? higher corporation taxes? layoffs in giant american companies? remote work (cheaper workforce in other countries)?

Likely everything of those accumulated.

We aren't talking about the same thing. You are talking about the job markets, which is fair giving the thread, I was talking more big picture. I also wouldn't call Poland 'Western' in the sense of economies, it's fast becoming one but not yet.

The average person in the developed (economy) world is working longer and producing more and feeling poorer.

Do you have a connection to Poland?

[mem80]

s

We aren't talking about the same thing. You are talking about the job markets, which is fair giving the thread, I was talking more big picture. I also wouldn't call Poland 'Western' in the sense of economies, it's fast becoming one but not yet.

The average person in the developed (economy) world is working longer and producing more and feeling poorer.

Do you have a connection to Poland?

Yes - I am originally from Poland. Worked there for 7 years, now 7 years in the UK.

Based on my experience (my colleagues has similar feelings), I don't think UK workers work longer and produce more. Working in Poland was harder and required producing about 50% more and tighter deadlines, based on lower day rates. To be honest, that's one of the reasons why I like to stay and work in the UK. Slower life, better work-life balance, no much pressure on deadlines at work in comparison to PL. However, financially the difference is not big anymore (especially comparing cost of living). Pandemic and remote work changed a lot there.