State of the Market

[MrMarkyMark]

Yes, I know that. But that's what people think at the time. They are probably long gone when it goes belly up.

Surely, as a seasoned professional it is up to you to have the skills to point out the error of their ways?

[LondonManc]

Surely, as a seasoned professional it is up to you to have the skills to point out the error of their ways?

It'd take a brave one to point out that the total cost of the project has conveniently omitted the costs of the initial balls up as well.

[uk contractor]

It's all about budget. Someone told me it's cheaper to do it this way, bringing in premium skills to fix it when necessary.

Budget is driving almost everything right now quality, experience & outstanding interpersonal skills count for little. The only exceptions are end clients who value quality & or have been through the downside to shaving costs from mission critical IT systems!

[LondonManc]

Budget is driving almost everything right now quality, experience & outstanding interpersonal skills count for little. The only exceptions are end clients who value quality & or have been through the downside to shaving costs from mission critical IT systems!

Even then, it's only when the CEO isn't on a profits bender!

[sal]

The "problem" with IT outsourcing/off-shoring is complex with multiple contributing factors.

At the root of it is that most businesses tend to treat IT as non-core business, so outsourcing it (like the office cleaners) seems like a logical decision. Once you have outsourced it it's an easy slide down the slope to off-shoring. When you couple this with the ever going drive for "cost saving" and C-level bonuses based on that we have the perfect storm. I have yet to hear about CIO/CTO being fired or losing his/hers bonus, despite the myriad of high profile IT blunders in the last couple of years.

There is also a great misconception about off-shoring, just because in 99% of the cases it's a cost saving exercise, doesn't mean the cust always go to the bone. What i mean is that contrary to the popular believe there are IT specialists in India, East Europe etc. with skills/knowledge on par with UK. And you can achieve cost saving due to somewhat lower wages and office space costs compared to the UK without compromising on quality.

[LondonManc]

The "problem" with IT outsourcing/off-shoring is complex with multiple contributing factors.

At the root of it is that most businesses tend to treat IT as non-core business, so outsourcing it (like the office cleaners) seems like a logical decision. Once you have outsourced it it's an easy slide down the slope to off-shoring. When you couple this with the ever going drive for "cost saving" and C-level bonuses based on that we have the perfect storm. I have yet to hear about CIO/CTO being fired or losing his/hers bonus, despite the myriad of high profile IT blunders in the last couple of years.

There is also a great misconception about off-shoring, just because in 99% of the cases it's a cost saving exercise, doesn't mean the cust always go to the bone. What i mean is that contrary to the popular believe there are IT specialists in India, East Europe etc. with skills/knowledge on par with UK. And you can achieve cost saving due to somewhat lower wages and office space costs compared to the UK without compromising on quality.

Absolute horsecrap.

[MrMarkyMark]

The "problem" with IT outsourcing/off-shoring is complex with multiple contributing factors.

At the root of it is that most businesses tend to treat IT as non-core business, so outsourcing it (like the office cleaners) seems like a logical decision. Once you have outsourced it it's an easy slide down the slope to off-shoring. When you couple this with the ever going drive for "cost saving" and C-level bonuses based on that we have the perfect storm. I have yet to hear about CIO/CTO being fired or losing his/hers bonus, despite the myriad of high profile IT blunders in the last couple of years.

There is also a great misconception about off-shoring, just because in 99% of the cases it's a cost saving exercise, doesn't mean the cust always go to the bone. What i mean is that contrary to the popular believe there are IT specialists in India, East Europe etc. with skills/knowledge on par with UK. And you can achieve cost saving due to somewhat lower wages and office space costs compared to the UK without compromising on quality.

For sure there are.

They just won't be the ones put to work on UK based projects / functions.

Any that are any good, just leave for the next best offer, in any case.
As everyone is doing it, there are plenty of other offers available to them out wherever they are.

[SussexSeagull]

I wouldn't for a moment suggest there aren't some very talented IT professionals in Eastern Europe, India and other countries where outsourcing takes place. Also not everyone who comes out of University and goes straight to one of the consultancies in this country is god's gift to IT.

I personally think the main problem is the customer service element. In this country we either put the customer at the centre of things or at least try and make the impression we are! Eastern Europe and India had centralised economies until not long ago so customer service are relatively new things.

Plus there is the cultural differences where Eastern Europeans can be quite confrontational and Indians can lack initiative.

Give it time though. They will work it out. Then we are on trouble,

[SueEllen]

Absolute horsecrap.

I've worked with them from Poland and South Africa.

I then worked with a Polish guy over here, who worked that way plus with Indian off-shorers.

He's comments about Indian off-shore people mirror everyone else on here.

[LondonManc]

The problem with off-shoring that I've seen is that you get complete incompetents who are job-hopping or you get completely green and keen graduates who simply don't have the experience or ability to deliver. Guess what? We've got graduates like that over here at a similar price, who won't job hop after six months.

That's the other factor for off-shoring; their job culture is such that there's typically a 40% attrition of staff over the year - you lose momentum as people jump ship and you know the next junior bod will be on a learning curve and asking the same questions and not understanding the same set of things that the previous one didn't. If we hadn't dumbed down our degrees, we could still be cherry-picking the best for the right jobs.